WC in MMA

[HumbleWCGuy]

The thing that makes Aaron's guys different than many tradionalists is that they get it. They know goal is not to show one as a WC guy or any type of specific style, but to use what works best in the circumstances to win.

There's a reason they are using somewhat differing techniques and style... because that's what works best. If the other stuff worked as good or better, they'd be using it.

I have no problem with them doing a lot of other stuff. I do a lot of other stuff too, but it isn't WC. The ultimate goal is to win fights. If WC suites you then use it. If WC does not then use something else. This guy was using something else so let's not call it WC.

I would certainly call myself a practitioner of non-classical WC, even by those standards, I would have a hard time calling that fighting WC.

[Knifefighter]

I have no problem with them doing a lot of other stuff. I do a lot of other stuff too, but it isn't WC. The ultimate goal is to win fights. If WC suites you then use it. If WC does not then use something else. This guy was using something else so let's not call it WC.

I would certainly call myself a practitioner of non-classical WC, even by those standards, I would have a hard time calling that fighting WC.

OK, then... I guess WC doesn't work very well against trained, multi-disciplined fighters. Otherwise, he would have used it.

[HumbleWCGuy]

OK, then... I guess WC doesn't work very well against trained, multi-disciplined fighters. Otherwise, he would have used it.

The WC that he learned probably doesn't.

[Knifefighter]

The WC that he learned probably doesn't.

LOL... but you have the "real" WC that works, while these guys don't, I suppose.

Funny how every single guy in the history of WC who puts other people down for not using their WC "correctly", but claims to have the "real" stuff himself has absolutely zero evidence of this. I guess you can join the join the crowd on that one.

[Pacman]

Aaron is using my system, at the end of the fight, he has trapped the opponent and is executing several punches in succession before he submits him with a guillotine (last move of Biu Jee).

if that is trapping, then every bully in the united states who gets his victim in a headlock and starts pounding away is a wing chun expert too.

aaron won the fight because he was in better shape. the other guy was gassed.

aside from the alleged "trapping" what other use of wing chun was there?

[Pacman]

LOL... but you have the "real" WC that works, while these guys don't, I suppose.

Funny how every single guy in the history of WC who puts other people down for not using their WC "correctly", but claims to have the "real" stuff himself has absolutely zero evidence of this. I guess you can join the join the crowd on that one.

there are lots of videos out there. if the only evidence you consider valid is winning an MMA fight, that is another thing.

[Knifefighter]

there are lots of videos out there. if the only evidence you consider valid is winning an MMA fight, that is another thing.

Please post one.

[HumbleWCGuy]

LOL... but you have the "real" WC that works, while these guys don't, I suppose.

Funny how every single guy in the history of WC who puts other people down for not using their WC "correctly", but claims to have the "real" stuff himself has absolutely zero evidence of this. I guess you can join the join the crowd on that one.

I don't think that I hold a monopoly on good WC. That WC guy who smoked you in that video seemed to have pretty good WC. Ducan Leung's guys have outstanding WC. I am sure that other members of this forum do as well.

Edit:
Dale, if you are just here to start your usual nonsense, then I recommend that you get a permanent ban. If you are going to post clips like the one at the top of this thread and call them WC then you have absolutely no idea about WC and really have zero business on this forum or any kung fu forum for that matter.

[Lee Chiang Po]

What I am saying is that I don't think it prudent to paint with a broad brush (what should WCK look like) but rather make the question a personal/individual one (do you fight like you train to fight).

You DO need to put anything you do in a MMA environment since that environment permits the contestants to fight in all ranges (stand up, clinch and ground). What good is your stand up if you can be taken down at will (which completely neutralizes your stand up)?

When you do put what you do in a MMA environment, you will find that it will force you to greatly adapt your game.



MMA isn't a "style" or an "art" -- it is a ruleset, an environment. Fighters who compete in MMA, or just practice it for fun, do what works, whatever works. If you show them something that works better, they'll steal it. There is a reason that you see the same things in all MMA fights -- those are the things that have proved to work consistently, and so people adopt them.

If I put you in a MMA environment for 6 months and had you spar regularly, you'd start doing those things that work and stop doing those things that don't (since you'd keep getting killed doing those things).

When you don't go through that process, it is easy to fantasize about what you would or could do.

This is my point. It is a ruleset and an environment. In order to compete there everyone has to adopt and adapt. They end up with the same ruleset so they pretty much end up having to use the same fighting techniques and methods as everyone else. I can not and probably never could compete in the ring, as it is with most everyone else. We have exceptional individuals that shine there, and a whole bunch of other people that really want to. A gung fu system is designed to be used in a way as to make you equal to others as best as possible. In the ruleset environment of MMA you also have to be extremely fit in order to compete with any real expectations. Just look at the top fighters in MMA today. Would you have any prayer of a chance in beating any one of them? No. Most of us wouldn't. Some of them got caught shooting steriods to make them stronger. This is the key with MMA. Learning and skill are following far behind physical training and strength training. In order to get a fellow into an arm bar, kemora? You have to be stronger than he is in order to force the arm into position and hold it. And if you are not strong enough it won't happen, or he just might force his arm out of it. Just look at all the top guys. They are all well above average in what they do. Everyone else is just wishing. You can not reasonably expect any none sport fighting system to be able to do anything in such an environment.

[chusauli]

if that is trapping, then every bully in the united states who gets his victim in a headlock and starts pounding away is a wing chun expert too.

aaron won the fight because he was in better shape. the other guy was gassed.

aside from the alleged "trapping" what other use of wing chun was there?

Pacman,

That is a trap - its not going to be "Fan Sao" like in Chi Sao... that's fantasy stuff. In real fights, you do it that way to deliver the goods. See how Aaron does not wind up- his hands strike from where they are.

You look at the body and you know the pressure Aaron is exerting comes from the body structure. But then, I know most people in WCK have no body structure and can't see it. They merely strike from the arms, which is not enough to knock anyone out.

Its okay to criticize, but what do you do in MMA matches? Show me your good WCK and ideal WCK working. My grandstudent Aaron can at least deliver the goods and won.

[Knifefighter]

I don't think that I hold a monopoly on good WC. That WC guy who smoked you in that video seemed to have pretty good WC. Ducan Leung's guys have outstanding WC. I am sure that other members of this forum do as well.

Seems to be no evidence of any of them fighting full contact... what a surprise.

If you are going to post clips like the one at the top of this thread and call them WC then you have absolutely no idea about WC and really have zero business on this forum or any kung fu forum for that matter.

Funny, but I'd be willing to bet Aaron and his guys would beg to differ in terms of whether or not they are using WC.

[Knifefighter]

This is my point. It is a ruleset and an environment. In order to compete there everyone has to adopt and adapt. They end up with the same ruleset so they pretty much end up having to use the same fighting techniques and methods as everyone else. I can not and probably never could compete in the ring, as it is with most everyone else. We have exceptional individuals that shine there, and a whole bunch of other people that really want to. A gung fu system is designed to be used in a way as to make you equal to others as best as possible. In the ruleset environment of MMA you also have to be extremely fit in order to compete with any real expectations. Just look at the top fighters in MMA today. Would you have any prayer of a chance in beating any one of them? No. Most of us wouldn't. Some of them got caught shooting steriods to make them stronger. This is the key with MMA. Learning and skill are following far behind physical training and strength training. In order to get a fellow into an arm bar, kemora? You have to be stronger than he is in order to force the arm into position and hold it. And if you are not strong enough it won't happen, or he just might force his arm out of it. Just look at all the top guys. They are all well above average in what they do. Everyone else is just wishing. You can not reasonably expect any none sport fighting system to be able to do anything in such an environment.

WOW!!! Talk about clueless.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Seems to be no evidence of any of them fighting full contact... what a surprise.


Funny, but I'd be willing to bet Aaron and his guys would beg to differ in terms of whether or not they are using WC.

Maybe so but if I remember correctly, Aaron or someone close to him posted the clip the first time. It basically got the same review that it is getting now. I know that my post was deleted and maybe the whole thread. It has been a while.

[SAAMAG]

That's the thing about Orr's guys. No one is saying they can't fight, but what they are saying is that it's not WC. I used to be one of those people until I did more research on what they do, took a look at their 7 DVD set and therein were the principles of wing chun being used, along with the punches, and varied use of techniques like lan sao and other things. It's not 1800's WC, it's applied WC from an MMA perspective for modern day.

So now I look at it as more of an mma using WC elements type of style, because it's got wing chun in there, just not in the traditional sense

[Knifefighter]

Maybe so but if I remember correctly, Aaron or someone close to him posted the clip the first time. It basically got the same review that it is getting now. I know that my post was deleted and maybe the whole thread. It has been a while.

What a surprise! All the theoretical, fantasy, non-fighters trash-talked the fighting of a WC guy who is actually going out there and fighting. No wonder WC is generally a laughingstock. The pretend guys are telling the guys who are actually out there representing that they are doing it wrong.

But OK, lets assume you are right, that they are unable to use their WC. That must mean that WC, as a system, suks big time. Take a guy and training him in wrestling, bjj, boxing, muay thai, and/or sambo for 8 months or so and he will be able to use the majority of what he has learned.

I saw him using BJJ quite effectively, even though he has significantly less BJJ training than WC training.

Oh well, I guess that just speaks to the superiority of BJJ.