Muay Thai vs Bagua/ Nak vs Maoshan

[taai gihk yahn]

oh i forgot that thanks for reminding me

bit like guys who train for the street losing their powers and skills when they have to put on 4oz gloves and fight on a surface other than smashed bottles lol

precisely; it's all about the smashed bottles that cue u into ur "glow"...

He may be better off fighting from a southpaw stance.
mickey

he may be better off fighting at the south pole...

[dimethylsea]

How does one do/defend against a superman punch?

I never learned that one. Link to vid or something?

Fight Footage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFh3mVbIUOI

How-To
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5AHoLF3etQ

How to defend it? Keep your hands up. It's a punch to the head.. you defend it like you defend any punch to the head.. cover or slip it

[taai gihk yahn]

How does one do/defend against a superman punch?

I never learned that one. Link to vid or something?

If do correct, no can defense.

[Yum Cha]

If do correct, no can defense.

Like every big move, move laterally. Easy to say, hard to do.

[goju]

How does one do/defend against a superman punch?

I never learned that one. Link to vid or something?

move out of the way

do what fedor did to arvloski lol

[omarthefish]

Let's be realistic.

- A boxer will have powerful punches.
- A MT guy will have powerful kicks.
- A Judo guy will have powerful throws.

What will a Bagua guy have? May be the question should be asked as, "What moves do you expect to see a Bagua guy to use in fight?"

Some IMA guys may think that they can "yield", "follow", "sticky" their opponent to death. In order to end a fight, you will need powerful punch, powerful kick, powerful throw, or powerful lock no matter what style that you train.

I would expect to see really good footwork. More specifically, I'd expect him to often be able to outflank his opponent and attack from the side door. I'd expect him to neutralize most attacks with forward diagonal movement. Attackwise I would expect either a lot of tight hook punches or some reasonably decent throwing.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Here is the thing, IF your training doesn't work in the RING, with limited rules and a controlled environment, how can it EVER work on the street with no rules ??

For bagua to be effective VS MT ( for example), it must be trained VS MT.
Why?
MA systems with highly specialized skill sets are far more dependent on timing and such than are "general skill set" MA as MT.
As such, when Bagua is trained vs Bagua, it will work best VS bagua.
MT, because it has a general skill set ( Hit the guy in front of you) it doesn't really need to train VS a specific style ( though that does help of course).

Maoshan looks like a guy that is interested in testing his skills and this is always a good thing for a MA, the issue seems to be that his training is not up tp par, he is stuck in the illusion of street VS ring and he doesn't seem to be "learning" from his fights.

[Frost]

Here is the thing, IF your training doesn't work in the RING, with limited rules and a controlled environment, how can it EVER work on the street with no rules ??

For bagua to be effective VS MT ( for example), it must be trained VS MT.
Why?
MA systems with highly specialized skill sets are far more dependent on timing and such than are "general skill set" MA as MT.
As such, when Bagua is trained vs Bagua, it will work best VS bagua.
MT, because it has a general skill set ( Hit the guy in front of you) it doesn't really need to train VS a specific style ( though that does help of course).

Maoshan looks like a guy that is interested in testing his skills and this is always a good thing for a MA, the issue seems to be that his training is not up tp par, he is stuck in the illusion of street VS ring and he doesn't seem to be "learning" from his fights.

why do you have to be so sensible and reasonable it spoils all the fun on here

[sanjuro_ronin]

why do you have to be so sensible and reasonable it spoils all the fun on here

Well, I can't post pics of hot babes all the time, can I?

[Frost]

Well, I can't post pics of hot babes all the time, can I?

why not?!

[David Jamieson]

*snip*

Maoshan looks like a guy that is interested in testing his skills and this is always a good thing for a MA, the issue seems to be that his training is not up tp par, he is stuck in the illusion of street VS ring and he doesn't seem to be "learning" from his fights.

It's clear by looking at him that he doesn't train for intense contests.

no offense but I have yet to see any bagua used in a fighting sense.
Nobody trains it to fight with it and no one has demonstrated that with free form or free style fighting to date.

everybody does a solo form with it and no one has ever fought publically with any success with it except for the legends of forbidden city guards etc etc.

[taai gihk yahn]

MA systems with highly specialized skill sets are far more dependent on timing and such than are "general skill set" MA as MT.

I think u hav just qi--balled the TCMA nail squarely on the head...

it begs the question, what then, is the value / point, if any, of training such a highly specialized skill set that only "works" against itself (or similar sets), given that a) a generalized skill-set is what you would expect most people these days to have, and b) it apparently takes an inordinate amount of time to achieve competency in terms of that skill-set's own intrinsic criteria, meaning that for far less time you could have skils that are far more applicable across the board;

of course, bagua, as the stories go, was "traditionally" taught by Dung as an adjunct to people who already had a base system - so maybe that answers the question right there...but again, that may have been fine 100+ years ago in China - but here we are in a very different context, which apparently bears out the lack of relevance (if we assume that Maoshan is performing bagua skill at a "high" level...)

[Eddie]

I think u hav just qi--balled the TCMA nail squarely on the head...

it begs the question, what then, is the value / point, if any, of training such a highly specialized skill set that only "works" against itself (or similar sets), given that a) a generalized skill-set is what you would expect most people these days to have, and b) it apparently takes an inordinate amount of time to achieve competency in terms of that skill-set's own intrinsic criteria, meaning that for far less time you could have skils that are far more applicable across the board;

of course, bagua, as the stories go, was "traditionally" taught by Dung as an adjunct to people who already had a base system - so maybe that answers the question right there...but again, that may have been fine 100+ years ago in China - but here we are in a very different context, which apparently bears out the lack of relevance (if we assume that Maoshan is performing bagua skill at a "high" level...)

Star Star Star Star Star <----- 5 stars for good post

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think u hav just qi--balled the TCMA nail squarely on the head...

it begs the question, what then, is the value / point, if any, of training such a highly specialized skill set that only "works" against itself (or similar sets), given that a) a generalized skill-set is what you would expect most people these days to have, and b) it apparently takes an inordinate amount of time to achieve competency in terms of that skill-set's own intrinsic criteria, meaning that for far less time you could have skils that are far more applicable across the board;

of course, bagua, as the stories go, was "traditionally" taught by Dung as an adjunct to people who already had a base system - so maybe that answers the question right there...but again, that may have been fine 100+ years ago in China - but here we are in a very different context, which apparently bears out the lack of relevance (if we assume that Maoshan is performing bagua skill at a "high" level...)

A valid point and one I have ponder quiet a bit, my forte is "gross motor skill" MA:
Kyokushin, Boxing, Hung Kuen, MT, but i also have some experience in the finer and more "specialiased" ones of WC and SPM.
I questioned my HK sifu about this, when his bother was there ( he is a SPM guy) and he basically said what I "knew" he was gonna say:
Specialised hands bring something different to the table and that is a huge edge, IF it can be applied.
And they agreed that, the only way they can be applied is by training them VS what they will be facing and that is NOT each other.
One thing you will find in common with people that CAN apply specialized hands is that they either have LOTS of fighting experience with said "hand" and VS other systems (WSL for example) OR they have a back ground with various systems so they can "translate" the hand to combat better.

[David Jamieson]

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I mean, without throwing feces at your monitor! lol

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