Got choked out last night-good choke tech.

[JWTAYLOR]

My instructor choked me out standing last night. Not completely out, but definately put me dizzy and on my a$$.

First off, I know how to tap, but I knew it was going to be a scissor choke and I tucked my chin and didn't feel like I was going out at all. As a matter of fact, I didn't even feel a thing until about a second after he let go.

Anyway, he did the choke a little different than I've seen it in the past. I've always done a scissor/paper cutter choke in the past by crossing my hands, placing my right hand inside and behind my opponent's right collar and my left on his left, elbows down. Then I simply raise my elbows. This works really well if your opponent is under your mount, but not so well if he is standing. Instead, my instructor put his right hand on my right collar, just under my ear, elbow down. Then he put his left hand under my right and just held on to my left collar/lapel. Then he pulled his right elbow up, horizontal to my neck, pushed in with the right and simply pulled out with the left. The blade of his forearm drove under my adams apple, and the left just pulled down and out. It had the result of significant pressure on the sides of my neck (blood choke) and allot of pressure on my esophogus (air choke). He held it for all of 3 seconds. I'v NEVER had to tap in 3 seconds, not even from the best rear naked. But then he let go. I took a step back, and then BAM. The world got real small, real fast.

Anyway, thought we could all use a good standing choke, especially since you could smack that throat pretty hard with the forearm if you wanted. He worked it is as a follup up from an uppercut.

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[Tvebak]

good technique, thanks for sharing.

[Knifefighter]

JWT:
I believe the "paper cutter" choke has one arm behind the opponent's neck. Are both of these chokes with both arms in front of the opponent's neck? The problem I have with standing chokes with both arms in front of the neck is that, unless you fall back into the guard, they leave you vulnerable to a flying arm bar..

[JWTAYLOR]

Your right hand would be on the side of the neck, but the arm is pretty much in front. And I agree, it would be possible to get the flying armbar in on this one or just about any standing choke with both arms in the front. That said, and I havne't tried it on the mat yet, but I think this one would be one of the harder ones to pull the flying arm bar on. Either way, you would have to be pretty d@mn quick.

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[Knifefighter]

Besides the flying arm bar, here’s another counter-

Defend the neck by pulling down on the opponent's wrist(s) or blocking with your forearm;
Sit back like you are going to pull guard, but put your feet on your opponent’s hips;
As you sit back lift your opt up with your feet, rolling him up and over your head;
Follow him over and you will be in the mount;
If he continues to hold the choke finish him with a spinning arm bar.
a

[JWTAYLOR]

I"ve tried the roll over from a standing position before, but I end up just standing on their thighs or slipping off their hips. The guy I regularly rolled with, (who is out of commission so I'm still looking for someone to roll with in the Austin area) was much heavier and stronger than I am, and a better wrestler to boot, so pulling him down was not happening. When I tried the flying armbar, I would always end up hanging by his arm, he was able to remain standing. The bar still works fine from there, but usually they go down with you.

What am I doing wrong?

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[Knifefighter]

The arm bar hanging in the air can work, but is not too safe, as you can be slammed on your head. I prefer to transition into a knee bar from there.

You might not be getting enough momentum when you bring your feet into their hips. You want a type of pendulum effect.
g

[JWTAYLOR]

Cool, I'll drag some of my instructors students on the mat and work on them for a while. Since I'm missing a partner, I'm getting sloppy quick.

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[Vankuen]

I learned that lapel choke in BJJ while in an upper mount, and also the guard.

I was told by those guys, that applying it standing would be almost suicide, as you will have both your hands tied up and would be allowing the other person to punch the shiet out of you. Those 3 seconds youre talking about could equate to at least 9 or so hits on you even for the average person.

Not saying I agree with this or disagree with this, Im just throwing it out there for some stimulus.

But I personally prefer side chokes and rear chokes over chokes straight on like that. Things happen very fast, and occupying both hands on one task can sometimes be a bad thing when you're standing right in their line of fire without controling their hands or energy. Maybe I need more practice. Hmm....

"From one thing know ten thousand" - Miyomato Musashi, Book of five rings

[Knifefighter]

Vanuken:
I agree with you 100%. In a striking environment, you probably don’t want to use this tech standing or in the guard, as it opens you up to getting pounded with punches. It can be used more safely in the mount, as you can bury your head and keep the opponent from getting enough space to deliver decent strikes.

[Water Dragon]

What about standing if you're pressing him against a wall?

You may take my life, but you will never take my Freedom

[JWTAYLOR]

WD, that's the context we used it in, and his head was tucked down over my left shoulder. Not much of a danger from a punch from there, maybe an uppercut, but there are some arms in the way for that.

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[DarkKnight]

JWT, There are about three very vicious throws from that position (Standing cross choke).

[JWTAYLOR]

Yep, there's allot of Shuai Jiow in Chang Style Tai Chi, and I recognized a throw as soon as I got a look at it.

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[Tvebak]

I think that waterdragon brought up a good point, what about if you do this technique pressing the oponent up against a wall?
Could it be used to run him backwards or in other ways slam him against a wall(or other stuff)?