The Wing Chun Enigma (streetfighting)

[goju]

i dont notice too much of a difference in power when my fist is kept vertical vs horizontal

in certainstrikes like the hook punch the fist kept in a verical postion is a better idea

[HumbleWCGuy]

i dont notice too much of a difference in power when my fist is kept vertical vs horizontal

in certainstrikes like the hook punch the fist kept in a verical postion is a better idea

If you are talking the same arm mechanics with the exception of the way the fist is turned there isn't a any power difference except for the close range were the vertical fist has an edge.

A lot of times when people are talking about the Wing Chun cross not being as powerful as a boxing cross it is usually because Wing Chunners throw a very tight cross and boxers may open their cross up a bit more.

[Niersun]

Again, lots of people will disagree and perhaps even take offense to this, but wing chun is a very limited fighting style, since it's based on very close quarter striking, and basically nothing about it has anything to do with fighting in the clinch or on the ground.

Notice that I said nothing about it's limitations from longer ranges than very close standup striking range. Something that I've talked about numerous times on this forum.

Because most (if not all) streetfights are going to close the distance from long to short range very quickly. There are basically no Muhammad Ali type streetfights, or kickboxing type streetfights either. That kind of thing is very, very rare in everyday life.

So for close quarter, standup streetfighting, wing chun can be very good. It has it's limitations (ie.- no clinch or ground material)...but for what it is, it can be very good, depending upon the person using it of course.

But in a ring/cage/mma setting...it's limitations become even more apparent. Not just because the fighters in such events have more room to maneuver, and are doing do so on a perfectly smooth and non-hostile surface - but because they are better trained than the typical guy on the street, who quite often charge in swinging wildly or going for some half-a55ed grab or football tackle.

Not that wing chun doesn't have some good moves to put on a more sophisticated striker, but stories of wing chun street success (and I'm not necessarily doubting the stories)...is often based upon facing the typical non-seriously trained streetfight mentality/abilites coming at you.

The enigma is that wing chun PURE AND SIMPLE...has pluses and minuses that are highly misunderstood.

Discuss....

The fight should end quickly and not be taken to the ground. If your in the clinch, knee to groin and if one arm is free, claw your opponents eyes.
I sparred a kickboxer out on day release and when he mounted me, i grabbed his nuts. a bit bad for sparring, but i got him to get off me.

The kickboxer i sparred with had a lethal kick. I think his kicks could of broken anybodies ribs or buckle their legs. To say KB isnt effective on the street is not true.

On the street, you have a mindset of a lion. Most of the Wing Chun practioners i see, do not have any ferocity when they train, and the way you train is the way you play. Most i see just wanna learn chi sao and be better than the other guy at chi sao and are not really fighters.

Instead of bil sao, kick and front step, chain punch, your students should be learning bil sao, bil jee to the eyes, front kick to the groin and stomp to the knee.

Your students should also be trained in getting taken to the ground, and trained to recover by attacking the eyes when mounted, or taking the arm with a pak sao, cheun sao, larp sao when on the bottom, to pull the opponent to the side.

Anyhow, if all your training is punches and front kicks as your first motion of attack or counter, them maybe you need to revise that. Bil Jee first, end the fight just like that. Not rocket science. End the fight as soon as possible.

[YungChun]

The fight should end quickly and not be taken to the ground. If your in the clinch, knee to groin and if one arm is free, claw your opponents eyes.
I sparred a kickboxer out on day release and when he mounted me, i grabbed his nuts. a bit bad for sparring, but i got him to get off me.

The kickboxer i sparred with had a lethal kick. I think his kicks could of broken anybodies ribs or buckle their legs. To say KB isnt effective on the street is not true.

On the street, you have a mindset of a lion. Most of the Wing Chun practioners i see, do not have any ferocity when they train, and the way you train is the way you play. Most i see just wanna learn chi sao and be better than the other guy at chi sao and are not really fighters.

Instead of bil sao, kick and front step, chain punch, your students should be learning bil sao, bil jee to the eyes, front kick to the groin and stomp to the knee.

Your students should also be trained in getting taken to the ground, and trained to recover by attacking the eyes when mounted, or taking the arm with a pak sao, cheun sao, larp sao when on the bottom, to pull the opponent to the side.

Anyhow, if all your training is punches and front kicks as your first motion of attack or counter, them maybe you need to revise that. Bil Jee first, end the fight just like that. Not rocket science. End the fight as soon as possible.

Are you affiliated with Robert Downey Junior?

See the Letterman segment in this clip...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p3yyiIkzLk

He's totally "down with that" it would seem..!

[Frost]

The fight should end quickly and not be taken to the ground. If your in the clinch, knee to groin and if one arm is free, claw your opponents eyes.
I sparred a kickboxer out on day release and when he mounted me, i grabbed his nuts. a bit bad for sparring, but i got him to get off me.

The kickboxer i sparred with had a lethal kick. I think his kicks could of broken anybodies ribs or buckle their legs. To say KB isnt effective on the street is not true.

On the street, you have a mindset of a lion. Most of the Wing Chun practioners i see, do not have any ferocity when they train, and the way you train is the way you play. Most i see just wanna learn chi sao and be better than the other guy at chi sao and are not really fighters.

Instead of bil sao, kick and front step, chain punch, your students should be learning bil sao, bil jee to the eyes, front kick to the groin and stomp to the knee.

Your students should also be trained in getting taken to the ground, and trained to recover by attacking the eyes when mounted, or taking the arm with a pak sao, cheun sao, larp sao when on the bottom, to pull the opponent to the side.

Anyhow, if all your training is punches and front kicks as your first motion of attack or counter, them maybe you need to revise that. Bil Jee first, end the fight just like that. Not rocket science. End the fight as soon as possible.

oh lord here we go again

[YungChun]

oh lord here we go again

Just go with it..

[Frost]

Just go with it..

its like we are in a time warp and its the 90's all over again

[YungChun]

its like we are in a time warp and its the 90's all over again

I think that's what they mean by "Forever Springtime"...

[Niersun]

Are you affiliated with Robert Downey Junior?

See the Letterman segment in this clip...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p3yyiIkzLk

He's totally "down with that" it would seem..!

Ive studied TWC briefly at the Melbourne Academy. We are from the same lineage.

its like we are in a time warp and its the 90's all over again

Nothing has changed in street fighting since then, other than more people are learning to fight, taking roids and getting drunk.

Just simply replying to what was stated.

[goju]

oh lord here we go again

and with the charles atlas body builting kit you will defeat those bullies who kicked over your sand castle by training only 15 minutes a day!

[Frost]

Ive studied TWC briefly at the Melbourne Academy. We are from the same lineage.



Nothing has changed in street fighting since then, other than more people are learning to fight, taking roids and getting drunk.

Just simply replying to what was stated.

I’ll be clearer then, I thought these beliefs about just poke him in the eye or grab him balls when mounted or simply poke his eyes in the clinch had been confined to the last decade and no one believed this rubbish anymore

Obviously i was wrong

[goju]

makes you wonder why they invented grappling to begin with if it is that easy to defeat it

[Niersun]

makes you wonder why they invented grappling to begin with if it is that easy to defeat it

I dont know why i wasted my time.

Obviously, you guys have already made up your mind, instead of training for it back in 90s which would make you guys half decent by now.

Im assuming you guys like your UFC. Jujitsu in that context is a sport, no fouls aloud. Therefore you dont see it, but when you do, you see the other guy needing to take a break before recommencing. I have seen a few UFC fights where someone gets poked in the eye and cant fight for 30secs or more.

Anyhow, if you dont train to take a hit (full contact sparring), then your gonna flinch in the real life situation. Therefore, it is not the technique that is wrong, its the person and the way they train.

Grappling has its uses, but real fights are won with strikes.

[goju]

if i take you down i will snap your arm/ leg/fingers immediately or choke you silly( and with the blades of my forearm against your adams apple too not the nice friendly way the bjj guys do XD)

and guess what this isnt because im a bjj guy or an mma fan boy i learned this in karate

my grappling knowledge(however basic) combined with my ability to fight dirty > just your notion you will happen to poke this or that at the right time

[YungChun]

I dont know why i wasted my time.

Obviously, you guys have already made up your mind, instead of training for it back in 90s which would make you guys half decent by now.

Im assuming you guys like your UFC. Jujitsu in that context is a sport, no fouls aloud. Therefore you dont see it, but when you do, you see the other guy needing to take a break before recommencing. I have seen a few UFC fights where someone gets poked in the eye and cant fight for 30secs or more.

Anyhow, if you dont train to take a hit (full contact sparring), then your gonna flinch in the real life situation. Therefore, it is not the technique that is wrong, its the person and the way they train.

Grappling has its uses, but real fights are won with strikes.

Instead of popping in on the board like Jeannie and pontificating about ancient martial myths to folks with, in some cases, 30 years experience, why not introduce yourself and tell us about your background and training....