My Confession

[Scott R. Brown]

really...have you done this against someone becuase i have found trying to deploy a knife and use it on someone shooting in fast for the takedown or who is controlling my arms and setting up the clinch very hard to do

oh and knifeing someone who is unarmed and thus probably not putting you in fear of your life means you will be spending the next few years in a cell...have fun

I have handled enough shooters to feel confident I can do it in many, if not most, circumstances. It has been a very rare circumstance where I wouldn't have been able to bring a knife into play.

Remember you must use strategy and tactics. A good knife fighter would, of course, practice bringing his knife into play. I have only toyed with the idea because I am not interest grappling, but I have grappled practiced grapplers in the past and I am not too concerned with most of them.

A smart person will draw a takedown and have a hidden knife prepared from the beginning. It isn't that hard to draw a takedown now-a-days when nearly everyone fancies themselves a grappler.

Is there a way around it? Of course there is, all techniques have counters. What makes someone successful is their ability to avoid counters when they are executing their chosen techniques.

As I said above......every method has its weakness. All one need do is study the techniques, divine the weaknesses and learn how to exploit them to your advantage!

At the very least you could just let them put you into their favorite armbar and drive your knife into their femoral artery and twist, severe their hamstring, sever their wrist tendons, severe the Achilles tendon, or any other target of opportunity.

[Scott R. Brown]

and when a big man comes to savage your botty...

thats true cage fighting

yep then hewill wish they had learned to fight on the ground in compromising positions, a jock strap in the face will be the least of his problems here

Or you may get your brains blown out and your family will be sad you brought your grappling to a gun fight!

[TaichiMantis]

a jock strap in the face will be the least of his problems here

Hmmm...this could be a trasition to the "biting thread"

[Scott R. Brown]

oh and knifeing someone who is unarmed and thus probably not putting you in fear of your life means you will be spending the next few years in a cell...have fun

You haven't fought any REAL bad guys then. They rarely care if the will end up in prison because most of them have already been there.

You can use the amount of force used against you. One could argue in court very easily that once they let a grappler control them they are completely at the mercy of someone who attacked them first and would be unable to defend themselves effectively.


Grappling can easily be demonstrated to be very dangerous and people have already died in the street from being choked out too long.

As they say, it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Fighting is not a game. You never know who doesn't care if they will end up in jail or not!

[Frost]

I have handled enough shooters to feel confident I can do it in many, if not most, circumstances. It has been a very rare circumstance where I wouldn't have been able to bring a knife into play.

Remember you must use strategy and tactics. A good knife fighter would, of course, practice bringing his knife into play. I have only toyed with the idea because I am not interest grappling, but I have grappled practiced grapplers in the past and I am not too concerned with most of them.

A smart person will draw a takedown and have a hidden knife prepared from the beginning. It isn't that hard to draw a takedown now-a-days when nearly everyone fancies themselves a grappler.

Is there a way around it? Of course there is, all techniques have counters. What makes someone successful is their ability to avoid counters when they are executing their chosen techniques.

As I said above......every method has its weakness. All one need do is study the techniques, divine the weaknesses and learn how to exploit them to your advantage!

At the very least you could just let them put you into their favorite armbar and drive your knife into their femoral artery and twist, severe their hamstring, sever their wrist tendons, severe the Achilles tendon, or any other target of opportunity.

in one sentence you say only toyed with the idea, but in another you say you are confident it will work, I’ll be honest here its sounds to me like the talk of an insecure man who doesn’t know how to grapple so is making himself feel better by saying how he would f*ck up the grappler with a knife. If you can't stop the momentum of the takedown you will be on your back and not have time to draw the blade it’s as simple as that...now if you can defend the takedown keep your balance you can then take the blade out and use it...of course that means learning to grapple something you don't seem to want to do.

As for putting you in an arm bar on the street dream on ill be kicking your f*cking head in or stomping you to death after throwing you on your head mate I will not be going for a nice sub like that.

But for arguments sake let’s say I did go for an arm bar you would have about a second before your arm was broken and I was rolling off you, I aint holding the sub I am breaking fast and hard...and I can enter an arm bar so quickly you would not even feel it coming especially if you are busy trying to stop me punch your head in (its hard to draw a knife when both hands are on your head and you are screaming please stop hitting me

[Frost]

Or you may get your brains blown out and your family will be sad you brought your grappling to a gun fight!

and again you will be off to jail and your family will be sad at the thought of you getting r*ped in the showers

[Frost]

You haven't fought any REAL bad guys then. They rarely care if the will end up in prison because most of them have already been there.

You can use the amount of force used against you. One could argue in court very easily that once they let a grappler control them they are completely at the mercy of someone who attacked them first and would be unable to defend themselves effectively.


Grappling can easily be demonstrated to be very dangerous and people have already died in the street from being choked out too long.

As they say, it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Fighting is not a game. You never know who doesn't care if they will end up in jail or not!

Oh here we go the real bad guys have shown up

not really striking has been shown to kill a lot more people than grappling and how many times has someone gotten off for shooting or stabbing an unarmed man who was trying to punch them (here in the UK I’ll give you a hint not often...of course it might be different in the states)

And it’s a lot easier to argue grappling is safer than striking both from a statistical point and in the law courts...I was just trying to hold him your honour to stop him hitting me and my friends and he stabbed me...look I left no mark on him at all I didn’t even raise my hands ...and so on and son on

The cross examination of the defendant by the prosecutor would be fun to listen to, so did the defendant hit you in any way...well no but he tried to hold on to me so I felt in fear of my life and stabbed him over and over

Thats a f*cking stupid saying how many street fights have you been in where you had to kill someone and how many times did you get off with it? Why bother learning any martial art why not just shoot or stab the next guy that pushes you or looks at you funnily

[goju]

[QUOTE=Frost;1008849]Oh here we go the real bad guys have shown up

not really striking has been shown to kill a lot more people than grappling and how many times has someone gotten off for shooting or stabbing an unarmed man who was trying to punch them (here in the UK I’ll give you a hint not often...of course it might be different in the states)

And it’s a lot easier to argue grappling is safer than striking both from a statistical point and in the law courts...I was just trying to hold him your honour to stop him hitting me and my friends and he stabbed me...look I left no mark on him at all I didn’t even raise my hands ...and so on and son on[QUOTE]



it honestly can be dangerous both ways you can shoot on a guy and he doesnt know how to fall and the next thing you know he cracked his melon on the side walk

eugene robinson's book called fight delt with this issue

it noted an incident where a bjj guy woke up to find some drunk guy messing about with his car he went to aks himto leave and the drunk got violent

he attacked bjj guys shot and the drunk happened to have his keys in his hand

he swiped the keys across the bjjs guys face and caused him to bleed lke a stuck pig

bjj guys manages to get the the drunk attacker to the ground takes his back sinks in a choke

BUT being that the bjj guy was bleeding all over the place and in a panic he accidentally held on to the choke a bit to long

attacker ended up dead

bjj guy faced serious pokey time

[goju]

you can't stop the momentum of the takedown you will be on your back and not have time to draw the blade it’s as simple as that...now if you can defend the takedown keep your balance you can then take the blade out and use it...of course that means learning to grapple something you don't seem to want to do.

you can still manage to pull a knife out on your back

[Frost]

[QUOTE=goju;1008854][QUOTE=Frost;1008849]Oh here we go the real bad guys have shown up

not really striking has been shown to kill a lot more people than grappling and how many times has someone gotten off for shooting or stabbing an unarmed man who was trying to punch them (here in the UK I’ll give you a hint not often...of course it might be different in the states)

And it’s a lot easier to argue grappling is safer than striking both from a statistical point and in the law courts...I was just trying to hold him your honour to stop him hitting me and my friends and he stabbed me...look I left no mark on him at all I didn’t even raise my hands ...and so on and son on

it honestly can be dangerous both ways you can shoot on a guy and he doesnt know how to fall and the next thing you know he cracked his melon on the side walk

eugene robinson's book called fight delt with this issue

it noted an incident where a bjj guy woke up to find some drunk guy messing about with his car he went to aks himto leave and the drunk got violent

he attacked bjj guys shot and the drunk happened to have his keys in his hand

he swiped the keys across the bjjs guys face and caused him to bleed lke a stuck pig

bjj guys manages to get the the drunk attacker to the ground takes his back sinks in a choke

BUT being that the bjj guy was bleeding all over the place and in a panic he accidentally held on to the choke a bit to long

attacker ended up dead

bjj guy faced serious pokey time

yes it has happened and yes they are bother dangerous but how often compared to someone getting hit with a punch and cracking their head on the pavement...statistically speaking more injuries come from strikes than takedowns or grappling...and as i said the law will have a hard time coming down on someone who got knifed for simply holding onto someone wouldn't you think?

[Frost]

you can still manage to pull a knife out on your back

have you done it often and sucessfully? I ask because i have trouble doing it and so do most of the guys i have tried it with, when you are going down your natural reaction is to either hold on or prepare/brace yourself for the coming impact..not reach behind your back. and a shoot gets you to the ground so quickly that even if you do reach behind your back you end up with your arm pinned between you and the ground which is not nice. Now can you stab omeone shooting in, yes but from my expereince this happens mostly after sprawling or stopping the momentum of the takedown first

[goju]

"and as i said the law will have a hard time coming down on someone who got knifed for simply holding onto someone wouldn't you think?"


it depends it could be said (or twisted) that when he was holding him down he was attempting to choke him thus the person who was being held was forced to stab him out of defense (shrugs)

theres to many factors playing into it making it just best to walk away or run lol

[Frost]

"and as i said the law will have a hard time coming down on someone who got knifed for simply holding onto someone wouldn't you think?"


it depends it could be said (or twisted) that when he was holding him down he was attempting to choke him thus the person who was being held was forced to stab him out of defense (shrugs)

theres to many factors playing into it making it just best to walk away or run lol

ok try these two instances..people whitness someone punching the cr*p out of someone who then gets knifed... and people whitness someone grabboing hold of someone and holidng him down on the ground and then getting knifed....which of the two would you see as more or an overkill?

any way my original point was rebutting the fact that grappling is seen as dangerous and has caused alot of deaths and thus pulling a knife could be justified in the eyes of the law....i say it has not and grappling is no where near as dangerous as striking in that it has not caused as many deaths...and that pulling a knife in a striking match would mean alot of trouble with the police as well.....would you agree?

[goju]

have you done it often and sucessfully? I ask because i have trouble doing it and so do most of the guys i have tried it with, when you are going down your natural reaction is to either hold on or prepare/brace yourself for the coming impact..not reach behind your back. and a shoot gets you to the ground so quickly that even if you do reach behind your back you end up with your arm pinned between you and the ground which is not nice. Now can you stab omeone shooting in, yes but from my expereince this happens mostly after sprawling or stopping the momentum of the takedown first

i was speaking of pulling a knife once you are on the ground not when you are falling of course thats not happening for the resons you noted


and its assuming the knife is in certain place on the person( like the back pocket)

it could be in the front pockets of the pants, in the front pockets of a jacket or shirt, heck ive even know people who walked around with those knife necklaces things like this

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51bFUtRVrvL.jpg

[goju]

ok try these two instances..people whitness someone punching the cr*p out of someone who then gets knifed... and people whitness someone grabboing hold of someone and holidng him down on the ground and then getting knifed....which of the two would you see as more or an overkill?

any way my original point was rebutting the fact that grappling is seen as dangerous and has caused alot of deaths and thus pulling a knife could be justified in the eyes of the law....i say it has not and grappling is no where near as dangerous as striking in that it has not caused as many deaths...and that pulling a knife in a striking match would mean alot of trouble with the police as well.....would you agree?

of course pounding someones face in would be however as i noted a good laywer can turn the second situation into an overexaggerated event where the knifer was in fear of his life and has to do it blah blah blah

as for the second part yes i agree