My Confession

[Frost]

i was speaking of pulling a knife once you are on the ground not when you are falling of course thats not happening for the resons you noted


and its assuming the knife is in certain place on the person( like the back pocket)

it could be in the front pockets of the pants, in the front pockets of a jacket or shirt, heck ive even know people who walked around with those knife necklaces things like this

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51bFUtRVrvL.jpg

a grappler would be tieing the arms up on the ground or punching the head and thus making drawing a knife hard...but as i noted i wouldn't be on the ground i would be soccer kicking the crap out of you after throwing you...i don;t know many guys who would go for the arm bar, throw soccer kick or knee on belly and punches does it for me and both of those make the knifing thing hard to do

[goju]

a grappler would be tieing the arms up on the ground or punching the head and thus making drawing a knife hard...but as i noted i wouldn't be on the ground i would be soccer kicking the crap out of you after throwing you...i don;t know many guys who would go for the arm bar, throw soccer kick or knee on belly and punches does it for me and both of those make the knifing thing hard to do

but this is based off of assumption just like the guy with his knife comments made

getting from point A to point B to point C doesnt go smoothly all the time and in between things can go wrong, horribly so in some instances

but of course i am not a complete noob to grappling so i am at an advantage

im sure someone who didnt know ANYTHING about putting someone in a guard or looking for certain things or how to fall would well be smushed pretty quickly

[Frost]

but this is based off of assumption just like the guy with his knife comments made

getting from point A to point B to point C doesnt go smoothly all the time and in between things can go wrong, horribly so in some instances

but of course i am not a complete noob to grappling so i am at an advantage

im sure someone who didnt know ANYTHING about putting someone in a guard or looking for certain things or how to fall would well be smushed pretty quickly

true however my assumptions come from sparing and fighting guys with little or no grappling, against these guys getting the takedowns is not that hard, neither is getting to your feet or staying on your feet to hurt them when they are down there..and my experience with grappling and training knifes comes from sparring guys with little grappling they found it hard to get the blade out...how someone with grappling opened me up easily when i did it with them.....hence I said its easier to use a knife if you can grapple and that relying on one instead of learning the basics is just silly and dangerous

[goju]

true however my assumptions come from sparing and fighting guys with little or no grappling, against these guys getting the takedowns is not that hard, neither is getting to your feet or staying on your feet to hurt them when they are down there..and my experience with grappling and training knifes comes from sparring guys with little grappling they found it hard to get the blade out...how someone with grappling opened me up easily when i did it with them.....hence I said its easier to use a knife if you can grapple and that relying on one instead of learning the basics is just silly and dangerous

oh i completely agree when i sparred the shaolin do person from this board here i took his back put him in a body trangle and clamped on a rear naked choke with virtually no fight from him at all( guy never grappled)

the basic grappling from goju combined with the year of bjji did would be enough to handle a street encounter( unless i am not picking a fight with an abu dhabi champion on my way to the grocery store )

but a person who doesnt know anything will 99 precent of the time just lie flat on his back and get easily controlled by someone whos knowledge of grappling is even basic(imagine if it was advanced)

hell i would be suprised if said person would even have the sense to up kick thus he wouldnt be able to create enough distance to pull out his knife

and with a grappling scenario you would have to have the knowledge of how to create space in order to whip out your knife

[Scott R. Brown]

Frost....I didnt bother reading your all your posts since my last post, i dont have the time....

You didnt read what i wrote very carefully. And dont know what you are talking about with some of what I have read that you have written.

I have choked out 2 brown belt grapplers, one who was 40-60 pounds heavier than me, 4 times, and one, the instructor's son, lighter than me by maybe 10-20 lbs., 3 times. it might be best not to draw too many conclusions about someone you know nothing about. both were in their early twenties and I was in my 40's.

I was also set up by my friends who were trying to embarrass me by setting me up with these two as ringers, LOL!

The guy who was bigger than me was known at that time for no one being able to choke him out, even when he allowed them secure the hold ahead of time. 4 times I choked him out; someone who could not be choked out by his instructor or other students.

so probably it is best not to spout too much about someone you know nothing about!

Yeah yeah i know I was lucky or he just wasnt that experienced right? sure whatever makes you able to sleep with yourself at night.

I also know California law. It is legal to kill a blackbelt who is threatening you if you can demonstrate a fear for your life. It is already decided law, from about 20 years ago.

I worked for nearly 15 years in the Dept of Corrections. I know guys who would laugh at nearly all MA wannabe tough guys. They will kill you without blinking an eye. some of them will be happy to fu(k your empty skull too. Most people only pretend to be tough because it makes them feel good about themselves. These guys really are tough. They have been shot and dont care. they have been stabbed and dont care. I have even known two that attempted to kill another inmate knowing they would be and were immediately shot for the attempt.

It is doubtful you have much experience with people like this, i worked amongst them for many many years. I have read their files. They have done stuff hannibal lecture has and worse. And they dont care about you mma wannabes. they fight to win and they wont care about sneaking up behind you and braining you with a hammer or running yo down with a car or torching you while you are still alive. They arent going to give anyone the chance.

MMA is for dueling not fighting real bad guys. it is for wannabes who think that fighting others makes them real men, but it is not. It is just another toy making insecure people feel they are worthwhile.

Most mma i have spoken to in the past years have your attitude. they think they can defeat anyone and nothing competes with what they know. They are wrong and have the same fantasy as other martial artists who think their martial arts are the best.

If you are not prepared to fight someone with a hidden knife. if you think you can defeat someone who you are not prepared to fight then good luck to you when you get surprised. If you think you can dump him on his head before he slits an artery. he will mostly likely do it as you close for the takedown. in fact you will probably run right into his knife.

[Dragonzbane76]

It is doubtful you have much experience with people like this, i worked amongst them for many many years. I have read their files. They have done stuff hannibal lecture has and worse. And they dont care about you mma wannabes. they fight to win and they wont care about sneaking up behind you and braining you with a hammer or running yo down with a car or torching you while you are still alive. They arent going to give anyone the chance.

MMA is for dueling not fighting real bad guys. it is for wannabes who think that fighting others makes them real men, but it is not. It is just another toy making insecure people feel they are worthwhile.

Most mma i have spoken to in the past years have your attitude. they think they can defeat anyone and nothing competes with what they know. They are wrong and have the same fantasy as other martial artists who think their martial arts are the best.

If you are not prepared to fight someone with a hidden knife. if you think you can defeat someone who you are not prepared to fight then good luck to you when you get surprised. If you think you can dump him on his head before he slits an artery. he will mostly likely do it as you close for the takedown. in fact you will probably run right into his knife.

sounds like a biased opinion of the MMA scene. I could agree that there are a lot of idiots attached to it. But I could also state that there are some basement dwelling mama's boys thinking they are decendents of Jedi who practice TMA. So your opinion is that it's all a farce. Learning MMA to defend yourself? MMA comes from other sources of MA's so therefore all MA's are worthless in a real fight? You confuse with your statement.

I worked corrections for years and your examples are of the extreme. Yes there are people like that but not all and most I've worked with always used opportunity more than any other weapon if presented with it.

Also we stated using a tazer when grappling to simulate knife defense. You'd be suprised at the results one learns when grappling with it. Your more aware of things for sure and grappling nullifies a lot.

[Scott R. Brown]

hi dragon, i understand it appears i think mma is a farce. to the contrary. what do u think i defeated the brownbelts with? i think MOST martial artists live in a fantasyland. INCLUDING mmartists. most ma's i have come across have their sacred cows. anyone who says "i will dump him on his head before he can use a knife", or like one guy just said to me on another thread, " i'll get u before you can shoot me" is dreaming about something they know nothing about. they dont want to face their fantasy. that is what i am about, revealing the fantasy and trying to get to reality. most people here appear to be WAY over confident. many of the mma are the worst because they think i can defeat anything. this is their achilles heel. for example a REAL knifefighter will have a minimum of 4 knifes sereted around his body. that is the minimum. he will not show it to you and sat, "hey i'm a knifefighter! watch out for me!" he will lure you in and cut you before you know hw has a knife! as far as corections goes if you were hanging around the nicer low level institutions i can see how yoy would think that way. the level 3,4 and now 5 inmates are not that few. there are alot of them and most institutions have REAL fights with REAL weapons EVERYDAY. btw. i am not talking about dealing with these guys in the prisons. i am talking about the ones out in the REAL world who we have to be cautious of. and of course they use opportunity to strike. that is my pointmost people train to deal with the wannabes not REAL badguys. the guys who are like ninjas. they dont care what they have to do to win. there is no honor, no dueling rules. you wont know what hit you and you'll be daed or incapaciated. no amount or training prepares one for the one you dont see coming. i just get tired of all these wanabe tough guys thinking they know what they are talking anout when they are just as fantasyland as those they criticize. i dont play favorites. i'll criticize anyone with the head in dreamland!

[kfson]

Straight from the heart.
The fat has been cut.

[Frost]

Frost....I didnt bother reading your all your posts since my last post, i dont have the time....

You didnt read what i wrote very carefully. And dont know what you are talking about with some of what I have read that you have written.

I have choked out 2 brown belt grapplers, one who was 40-60 pounds heavier than me, 4 times, and one, the instructor's son, lighter than me by maybe 10-20 lbs., 3 times. it might be best not to draw too many conclusions about someone you know nothing about. both were in their early twenties and I was in my 40's.

I was also set up by my friends who were trying to embarrass me by setting me up with these two as ringers, LOL!

The guy who was bigger than me was known at that time for no one being able to choke him out, even when he allowed them secure the hold ahead of time. 4 times I choked him out; someone who could not be choked out by his instructor or other students.

so probably it is best not to spout too much about someone you know nothing about!

Yeah yeah i know I was lucky or he just wasnt that experienced right? sure whatever makes you able to sleep with yourself at night.

I also know California law. It is legal to kill a blackbelt who is threatening you if you can demonstrate a fear for your life. It is already decided law, from about 20 years ago.

I worked for nearly 15 years in the Dept of Corrections. I know guys who would laugh at nearly all MA wannabe tough guys. They will kill you without blinking an eye. some of them will be happy to fu(k your empty skull too. Most people only pretend to be tough because it makes them feel good about themselves. These guys really are tough. They have been shot and dont care. they have been stabbed and dont care. I have even known two that attempted to kill another inmate knowing they would be and were immediately shot for the attempt.

It is doubtful you have much experience with people like this, i worked amongst them for many many years. I have read their files. They have done stuff hannibal lecture has and worse. And they dont care about you mma wannabes. they fight to win and they wont care about sneaking up behind you and braining you with a hammer or running yo down with a car or torching you while you are still alive. They arent going to give anyone the chance.

MMA is for dueling not fighting real bad guys. it is for wannabes who think that fighting others makes them real men, but it is not. It is just another toy making insecure people feel they are worthwhile.

Most mma i have spoken to in the past years have your attitude. they think they can defeat anyone and nothing competes with what they know. They are wrong and have the same fantasy as other martial artists who think their martial arts are the best.

If you are not prepared to fight someone with a hidden knife. if you think you can defeat someone who you are not prepared to fight then good luck to you when you get surprised. If you think you can dump him on his head before he slits an artery. he will mostly likely do it as you close for the takedown. in fact you will probably run right into his knife.

oh right you have fought two brown belts......in what art exactly were they brown belts in...your knowledge of grappling is poor that is easy for all to see...as is your knowledge of MMA training and fighting

as for MMA being a toy making insecure people feel worthwhile..this coming from a guy whos answer to a question is stab them with your hidden knife is just a priceless remark thanks for the laugh

I know exactly how good and bad i am and what i can and can't make work...i am also mature enough to walk away from most confrontations...also i am secure enough not to walk around with a knife looking to slit artries but hey thats just me

[Frost]

sounds like a biased opinion of the MMA scene. I could agree that there are a lot of idiots attached to it. But I could also state that there are some basement dwelling mama's boys thinking they are decendents of Jedi who practice TMA. So your opinion is that it's all a farce. Learning MMA to defend yourself? MMA comes from other sources of MA's so therefore all MA's are worthless in a real fight? You confuse with your statement.

I worked corrections for years and your examples are of the extreme. Yes there are people like that but not all and most I've worked with always used opportunity more than any other weapon if presented with it.

Also we stated using a tazer when grappling to simulate knife defense. You'd be suprised at the results one learns when grappling with it. Your more aware of things for sure and grappling nullifies a lot.

what he said

[sanjuro_ronin]

As some one that has tried full contact stick work and knife ( blunt aluminum and shock knives) work I can say this:
Grappling a guy with a knife is a VERY good idea, control the blade arm, it will keep you from getting stabbed.
Drawing a blade is NOT easy when the other guy is tying you up or punching you in the face, even with emerson "wave" knives ( I know because I have tried it).
The rule of thumb is:
Neutralize and THEN draw.
Great H2H work leads to good fighting with a weapon.
Sticks are different of course, but still pretty bad, especially ASP's or pipes.
Again, close the distance, get in "under" the line of fire, control the weapon arm, take out the opponent.

If you guys really want so good advice on this, ask Dale.
STAB, RED ZONE and DBMA are of course the top level in these things.

[Frost]

As some one that has tried full contact stick work and knife ( blunt aluminum and shock knives) work I can say this:
Grappling a guy with a knife is a VERY good idea, control the blade arm, it will keep you from getting stabbed.
Drawing a blade is NOT easy when the other guy is tying you up or punching you in the face, even with emerson "wave" knives ( I know because I have tried it).
The rule of thumb is:
Neutralize and THEN draw.
Great H2H work leads to good fighting with a weapon.
Sticks are different of course, but still pretty bad, especially ASP's or pipes.
Again, close the distance, get in "under" the line of fire, control the weapon arm, take out the opponent.

If you guys really want so good advice on this, ask Dale.
STAB, RED ZONE and DBMA are of course the top level in these things.

the stab stuff is top notch karl is a great coach and a funny guy

neutralize and then draw.....now why didn't i think of putting it like that great advice thanks ronin and in line with what dale says and my own limited experiences

[sanjuro_ronin]

the stab stuff is top notch karl is a great coach and a funny guy

neutralize and then draw.....now why didn't i think of putting it like that great advice thanks ronin and in line with what dale says and my own limited experiences

Karl is a good guy.
If one is so inclined, one can take a look over the internet and find many videos of knife attacks and the results there of.
I got the DBMA video, "Die Less Often 3" ( I highly recommend the whole series for ANYONE that ants to see the reality of knife fighting) and in the video are clips of actual footages of people getting attacked by other(S) with knives.
Very graphic and shocking, yes, but very crucial to see.
There was one that was very disturbing ( well they all were) in which a group attacked one guy and beat and cut him good but the shocking and disturbing part was that, even after he was lying there, bleeding on the floor, with his girlfriend/female other crying at his side, one of them CAME BACK and stabbed him a few times, for no reason other than to stab him !

That is the mentality that one needs to understand.

[Dragonzbane76]

like I said scott there are idiots in all sectors TMA included. In all honesty I've met more fantasyland TMA's than MMA individuals. But that just might be me who knows, all I can say is yes their are a lot of people out there living there own dreams.

Weapons do thrown another demension into fighting and yes a lot of MMA are designed around a rule set. But to just disqualify it entirely and say that it does not work in a defense situation is nonsense. Grappling offers many great defenses against weapons as ronin and I both stated. MMA is not all about grappling there are many different avenues, which you seemed fixed on grappling is just MMA.

As for the corrections thing I worked supermax high level detention center. And yes they are a different animal all together when confrontations are concerned. But that's a whole other topic

i just get tired of all these wanabe tough guys thinking they know what they are talking anout when they are just as fantasyland as those they criticize. i dont play favorites. i'll criticize anyone with the head in dreamland!

And I state the same thing about the traditional guys most times. But i'm not saying that MMA doesn't have it's meatheaded idiots in there tapout gear.

[Scott R. Brown]

oh right you have fought two brown belts......in what art exactly were they brown belts in...your knowledge of grappling is poor that is easy for all to see...as is your knowledge of MMA training and fighting

as for MMA being a toy making insecure people feel worthwhile..this coming from a guy whos answer to a question is stab them with your hidden knife is just a priceless remark thanks for the laugh

I know exactly how good and bad i am and what i can and can't make work...i am also mature enough to walk away from most confrontations...also i am secure enough not to walk around with a knife looking to slit artries but hey thats just me

Typical mma wannabe reaction! If someone you DON"T KNOW does something you DON"T UNDERSTAND to qualified people YOU DON"T KNOW, IT COULDN'T have happened because it doesn't fit in your fantasyland view of MMA!

THEY WERE GRAPPLERS WHO COMPETED IN GRAPPLING CONTESTS!!!

I don't know anymore about them because it was over 10 years ago! I beat them both easily numerous times, LIVE WITH IT!!!

That is exactly the attitude of wannabe fantasyland people I am talking about!

As some one that has tried full contact stick work and knife ( blunt aluminum and shock knives) work I can say this:
Grappling a guy with a knife is a VERY good idea, control the blade arm, it will keep you from getting stabbed.
Drawing a blade is NOT easy when the other guy is tying you up or punching you in the face, even with emerson "wave" knives ( I know because I have tried it).
The rule of thumb is:
Neutralize and THEN draw.
Great H2H work leads to good fighting with a weapon.
Sticks are different of course, but still pretty bad, especially ASP's or pipes.
Again, close the distance, get in "under" the line of fire, control the weapon arm, take out the opponent.

If you guys really want so good advice on this, ask Dale.
STAB, RED ZONE and DBMA are of course the top level in these things.

The thing about knifefighters, and it is something people can't seem to get in their heads here on this BB is, you won't see the knife until AFTER you are already cut, bleeding and dying!

If the guy is showing you his knife, he is a novice and you at least have a chance to beat him. I had a guy pull a knife on me once. I took off my jacket and swung it at his knife and knocked the knife right out of his hand!! See what I mean? he showed me his knife......odds are he is a beginner! A real fighter kills you before you even know you are dead.

I went to high school with a guy who did just that! Guy walks up to him posturing, Guy is DEAD!!!!! Guy I know, in jail!! Knew he was going to jail! Didn't care he was going to jail!! REAL BADGUY!!!

THAT is the real world. NOT this piddly little barroom wannabe fights, "I'll meet you in the parking lot" pu$$y little duel fights! This was a REAL fight with a REAL bad guy and it was someone I knew.

Speaking of pu$$y little barroom duel fights:

I worked with a guy whose brother was with a friend at a bar who got called out into the parking lot to fight. As they were walking out my friend's brother, who was NOT a participant in anyway, only a spectator, was cleankocked on the way out the door, fell and hit his head, and has permanent brain damage.

Another story,

A guy I went to high school with walked up to a guy who was standing next to a wall. The guy had called him over. When he got near the guy he brained him with a pipe he had been hiding behind the wall. The victim didn't even know the guy didn't like him! REAL BADGUY!!!

Shall I tell more???? I got more!

My sister's husband, whom I have known since I was 12 and the guy who got me into the martial arts, had a friend who as an Army Ranger, who had killed people in combat, was a demolitions expert and went on secret mission in central America AND worked as a bouncer, AND was higher level blackbelt in Kempo was killed in his home by an ex-girlfriend with a .32 handgun. AND he tried to defend himself the autopsy said!

Hmmmm.....so much for all those guys who will dump someone on their heads or get to their assailant before they can be shot!!!!

But I know, it wont happen to anyone here because everyone here is way more prepared and trained IN MMA.......RIIIIIIIIIGHT!!!!


Last story,

The guy I took my blackbelt test with over 30 years ago is at work. He gets into a fist fight with another guy. My friend is about to knock the guy out, guy pulls a gun on my friend. My friend, who is rather smart I would say, calmed himself down immediately and calmed down the guy with the gun. They both survived and no one went to jail!!! HMMMMM???? NO MMA!!!!!

Maybe not a REAL badguy, but anyone with a gun IS dangerous and can kill you before you can dump him on his head!!!

DREAMERS