WCK is attached fighting

[Wayfaring]

T, in your opinion what are the WCK tools to "get inside" the phone booth?

Geez, you guys. There's at least one tool that just about every single person who trains in MMA or at least who trains for cage events knows instinctively about how to "get inside" the phone booth.

It's called the cage. A backstop. Your opponent running up against something.

Someone can dance around your range extremities all day long, move and stick, head movment, etc. just outside your effective range. WCK doesn't play there. It doesn't do MT leg kicks which is that range, or other long range kicks, or extended punches, etc.

Many WCK families will say just don't react to feints, and only a threat that crosses your bridge has any reality to it. Let them dance and wear themselves out.

However, the other reality is that with centerline forward pressure, you can pressure your opponent out of space if you have a backstop. That's where MMA fighters go to a clinch game, and very few strike from there or do combined clinch / strike. Right there, or just outside right there is the 'phone booth' range.

If any of you actually trained in places that had either cages, pads on the wall, or something you can back someone up against to train on you would know that.

But no, every single @#$#@!$% place you see training WCK instead of something practical like that you see mirrors on walls so all you ladies can see if your lipstick is on correctly.

[Wayfaring]

Why do you care for my approval when you share your reality?
Why do you care if others agree with you if you know what you share is a reality?

So, it is the discussion of WCK or the discussion of needing others approval, agreement....?

I have zero need for your approval. I point things out such as my previous post because there are others reading this thread. Maybe they see the illogic of right after someone sharing their view you asking 'why don't you share your view?' maybe they don't. If I point it out, maybe they will see it. If I point it out to you, maybe you will see the illogic in how you are behaving. But I doubt that. If you had strong logic, you probably would not be trying to piece together the things that you are.

[kung fu fighter]

Dont tell me Gary Lam never fight MT...etc.

According to Gary he mainly used thai boxing in these matches, not wing chun. He once told me that thai boxing is king in the ring, but on the street a wing chun guy can beat a thai boxer.

isnt his mobile footwork a seal for himself?

Not sure what you mean, can you elaborate???

[sihing]

James, nice but not really as for distance. If you can hit me I can hit you. If you can kick me I can kick you. So staying away and jabbing for example is not how to defeat wing chun. Unless of course you are 7 feet then I suppose you can hit me and I cant hit you if we neither move.

otherwise yes all skills must be practiced to learn how to perform them. More real the practice greater chance of good performance under real pressure.

Yes and No, in that yes if you can hit me I can hit you sometimes. The lead jab is the longest striking weapon, WC doesn't have a lead jab like boxing, we're more square. That doesn't mean that a WC guy can't throw a lead jab as well if there is an opening, as it's about winning the fight, not portraying a style, but again if he's a boxer and your not, your jab won't be good enough. Don't box with a boxer, don't kick with a kicker and so forth. Our forte is to get to the inside and shut them down, strike from there.

gotta run...

James

[Dragonzbane76]

He once told me that thai boxing is king in the ring, but on the street a wing chun guy can beat a thai boxer.

LOLLLzzzz

[t_niehoff]

Geez, you guys. There's at least one tool that just about every single person who trains in MMA or at least who trains for cage events knows instinctively about how to "get inside" the phone booth.

It's called the cage. A backstop. Your opponent running up against something.

Someone can dance around your range extremities all day long, move and stick, head movment, etc. just outside your effective range. WCK doesn't play there. It doesn't do MT leg kicks which is that range, or other long range kicks, or extended punches, etc.

Many WCK families will say just don't react to feints, and only a threat that crosses your bridge has any reality to it. Let them dance and wear themselves out.

However, the other reality is that with centerline forward pressure, you can pressure your opponent out of space if you have a backstop. That's where MMA fighters go to a clinch game, and very few strike from there or do combined clinch / strike. Right there, or just outside right there is the 'phone booth' range.

If any of you actually trained in places that had either cages, pads on the wall, or something you can back someone up against to train on you would know that.

But no, every single @#$#@!$% place you see training WCK instead of something practical like that you see mirrors on walls so all you ladies can see if your lipstick is on correctly.

Very good.

[t_niehoff]

T, in your opinion what are the WCK tools to "get inside" the phone booth?

Generally, you have to punch your way in (see form, strike form, see shadow, strike shadow. . . ). There are various ways -- tactics -- for doing that, and the tactic you use will depend on what your opponent is doing. Once you know the tactics, it comes down to timing. And timing you ONLY develop from sparring.

Of course, all of that depends on having a good WCK punch (one that can break an opponent's structure).

I find " let his attack passed and using his strike to seal himself off/ Lay Lau Hoi Song Lat Sau Jek Choong" only works against a commited attack.

It does not address how to close in against an opponent who uses non committed feeler jabs with mobile footwork to stay just out of the wing chunner's reach to throw a chunner's timing and distancing off.

You are thinking of the tactic as being "responsive" instead of proactive. Waiting is BAD, and is not WCK's method. As Sum Nung's kuit tells us, "Forcing the opponent is a must." WCK people practicing/learning by standing still (typically flat footed) in the silly WCK guard (extended arm and wu sao, chin up & hands down)) waiting for an opponent to attack them are only instilling really bad habits -- they are training to fail.

Again how do you guys propose to get this attachment (getting inside the phone booth) with an opponent who sticks and moves, and does not committ foolishly, but instead uses non committed movements to draw out your counter attack, thus catching you off timing and range/distance?

I don't "propose" anything. I DO it. "Entering" into the phone booth is a skill. Someone with the skill needs to teach it to you and/or you need to work it out from doing it. Even if I tell you do X, you won't be able to do X because there are a number of things that are prerequisites to doing X.

Before you learn how to get it, you need to develop a competent inside inside game -- you need to be able to control your opponent while striking him. By knowing (from experience) what things you need to do, not do, etc. you will get an appreciation for how to set all that up (how you want to enter and how you don't want to enter). Also, if you can't fight inside, why would you enter to the inside?

[kung fu fighter]

Generally, you have to punch your way in (see form, strike form, see shadow, strike shadow. . . ). There are various ways -- tactics -- for doing that, and the tactic you use will depend on what your opponent is doing. Once you know the tactics, it comes down to timing. And timing you ONLY develop from sparring.

Of course, all of that depends on having a good WCK punch (one that can break an opponent's structure).

You are thinking of the tactic as being "responsive" instead of proactive. Waiting is BAD, and is not WCK's method. As Sum Nung's kuit tells us, "Forcing the opponent is a must."

by forcing the opponent, Are you referring to the stalking/pressure footwork that Aaron Baum is using starting at 4:09 into this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2mxSFqckr4

And by "punching your way in", are you referring to the cutting punch to disrupt the opponent's structure?

[t_niehoff]

by forcing the opponent, Are you referring to the stalking/pressure footwork that Aaron Baum is using starting at 4:09 into this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2mxSFqckr4

And by "punching your way in", are you referring to the cutting punch to disrupt the opponent's structure?

What Aaron is doing is one way of forcing your opponent.

In my view, there is no specific "cutting punch" -- all WCK punches can suppress bridges (it's "built in" to the action/structure).

[kung fu fighter]

What Aaron is doing is one way of forcing your opponent.

What other strategies/ways do you personally use to force your opponent besides the above to get in the phone booth?

[JPinAZ]

Generally, you have to punch your way in (see form, strike form, see shadow, strike shadow. . . ). There are various ways -- tactics -- for doing that, and the tactic you use will depend on what your opponent is doing. Once you know the tactics, it comes down to timing. And timing you ONLY develop from sparring.

Of course, all of that depends on having a good WCK punch (one that can break an opponent's structure).

I'm sure you're not referring to chain punching your way in as so many bad WC videos show. So, how can you punch your way in otherwise?
What I mean is, the WC punch, with elbow down, is a shorter range attack vs. a boxer jabbing at longer range. Without the machine gun chain punch nonsense, how do you personally pull this off? (and I'm not saying it can't be done, but examples of this would go a long way)

You are thinking of the tactic as being "responsive" instead of proactive. Waiting is BAD, and is not WCK's method. As Sum Nung's kuit tells us, "Forcing the opponent is a must." WCK people practicing/learning by standing still (typically flat footed) in the silly WCK guard (extended arm and wu sao, chin up & hands down)) waiting for an opponent to attack them are only instilling really bad habits -- they are training to fail.

again, curious how you 'force the opponent' with your shorter range WC phonebooth punches against someone using longer lead jabs and mobile footwork which is out of reach of your shorter WC punch, even if you try using footwork with them?

[Hendrik]

Not sure what you mean, can you elaborate???

sealing with momentum. momentum cant be change instantly.
how to borrow the momentum is the key, otherwise it is fighting force with force and who is more physical fit will win.

[Hendrik]

I'm sure you're not referring to chain punching your way in as so many bad WC videos show. So, how can you punch your way in otherwise?
What I mean is, the WC punch, with elbow down, is a shorter range attack vs. a boxer jabbing at longer range. Without the machine gun chain punch nonsense, how do you personally pull this off? (and I'm not saying it can't be done, but examples of this would go a long way)



again, curious how you 'force the opponent' with your shorter range WC phonebooth punches against someone using longer lead jabs and mobile footwork which is out of reach of your shorter WC punch, even if you try using footwork with them?

This is the problem with the chain punch to center line or rapid fire without knowing the seal off control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbRhA...eature=related

[kung fu fighter]

sealing with momentum. momentum cant be change instantly.
how to borrow the momentum is the key, otherwise it is fighting force with force and who is more physical fit will win.

thanks for the reply Hendrik,

How do you borrow the momentum when there is established contact with the opponent? can you give an example of how this ican be done?

Here is a clip of my good friend Troy Ross in action (the black fellow), how can you borrow his momentum when he stays on the outside using his feeler jab like in this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzMiAiLW0YA

[JPinAZ]

This is the problem with the chain punch to center line or rapid fire without knowing the seal off control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbRhA...eature=related

What the he!! does that have to do with anything? I was asking T a question on something he was talking about regarding application of wing chun. That is something you know nothing about, since you don't spar or train.
And that video doesn't have one thing to do with wing chun. If you see any wing chun in that clip, you really are hopeless.

Try this - stop butting in to other people's discussions about Wing Chun and just stick to what you know - posting 10 minute clips of you droning on about nothing at your table and petting invisible dogs, posting aimless music videos, mixing all sorts of internal arts into your hodge-podge mix-breed 'wing chun', etc.

Thanks but no thanks, I think I'll just wait for T's reply..