Shaolin confused

[kfson]

I don't know who fighting joe campbell is.

But I do like the writings of Joseph Campbell. :-)

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art..._explores.html
Joseph Campbell Mythos II Explores Hinduism and Buddhism

Campbell is Scottish, right?

[David Jamieson]

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art..._explores.html
Joseph Campbell Mythos II Explores Hinduism and Buddhism

Campbell is Scottish, right?

The name Campbell is indeed Scottish, but the professor and author is American.

[Scott R. Brown]

I don't know who fighting joe campbell is.

But I do like the writings of Joseph Campbell. :-)

I like his soup! Mmmmmmm....mmmmmm........Tomato and Rice!!!!

[kfson]

I like his soup! Mmmmmmm....mmmmmm........Tomato and Rice!!!!

or some kind of woody allen joke about Jewish soup.

[Errant108]

Think of it like different kinds of ice cream. You may prefer vanilla, some one else may prefer chocolate, a third may prefer a Ben and Jerry's fancy schmancy mix, but they are all still ice cream!

...

The instruction here is that methods of searching cannot lead you to what is right in front of your face. All you need do is look and see clearly with unobstructed sight. It is a "realization" that occurs; it is not something you DO, PRACTICE, or EARN!

This was actually a really good post, better than 99% of the bull**** you see about Zen/Chan on the Interwebs, not to mention the extreme bull**** you see written about the relationship between Chan/Zen & the martial arts.

Are you practitioner or student of Chan?

[GeneChing]

Don't they make sorbet too? And frozen yogurt. That's not ice cream.

[Scott R. Brown]

Don't they make sorbet too? And frozen yogurt. That's not ice cream.

Then you merely expand the metaphor.......so you could say, "They are still desserts!", or you could say, "They are still food!"

Another metaphor I like to use is different kinds of pie ....

.....but feel free to use your own food metaphors, Chris hasn't given me my "TM" on this one yet!!!

This was actually a really good post, better than 99% of the bull**** you see about Zen/Chan on the Interwebs, not to mention the extreme bull**** you see written about the relationship between Chan/Zen & the martial arts.

Are you practitioner or student of Chan?

Hi Errant108,

Thank you for the kind comments. It is rare to receive a compliment on a MA BB, LOL!!!

I have been a student of Ch'an/Zen and Tao for nearly 40 years!

If I haven't upset you yet, I am sure I will find some way to do so eventually........if you hang around here long enough.....

I mean...I am no uki or HW108, but then we can't all be Loki!!!

[monkey mind]

The idea of 'skillful means' or presenting Buddhist teachings & practices in different ways to suit different individuals is certainly one of the factors behind the proliferation of Buddhist sects. And in this sense, it's important to understand that just because there are different sects or schools does not mean that the concept of heresy applies. In other words, it's not a zero sum game as it often is in the west. There's another, less noble factor as well though. Buddhism has always been a social as well as a spiritual phenomenon. Right from the start, and picking up major steam under the Indian emperor Ashoka, issues of patronage, politics & power have been injected into the sangha. Certainly this trend increased over time as Buddhism spread. As some monasteries became wealthy, powerful institutions they understandably found their focus on the dhamma either shifted or diluted. And this spurred counter-movements, or competing movements. The same thing continues to happen even today. You can see it in within the Thai Theravada tradition, and probably others as well.

[YouKnowWho]

What is the difference between Buddhist and Zen?

I thought one only cares about himself 小乘 (Xiao Cheng), and the other care about others "大乘 (Da Cheng). Just like the tea party members who can't care less about whether others have health care or not. The democrat do care about that everybody should have health care.

[kfson]

I thought one only cares about himself 小乘 (Xiao Cheng), and the other care about others "大乘 (Da Cheng). Just like the tea party members who can't care less about whether others have health care or not. The democrat do care about that everybody should have health care.

???
One could argue that Republicans want everyone to have health care, but not socialized.
Socialized health care does not have a market on caring.

I'm not fast enough to see the relationship with Buddhism and Zen.

[Scott R. Brown]

The idea of 'skillful means' or presenting Buddhist teachings & practices in different ways to suit different individuals is certainly one of the factors behind the proliferation of Buddhist sects. And in this sense, it's important to understand that just because there are different sects or schools does not mean that the concept of heresy applies. In other words, it's not a zero sum game as it often is in the west. There's another, less noble factor as well though. Buddhism has always been a social as well as a spiritual phenomenon. Right from the start, and picking up major steam under the Indian emperor Ashoka, issues of patronage, politics & power have been injected into the sangha. Certainly this trend increased over time as Buddhism spread. As some monasteries became wealthy, powerful institutions they understandably found their focus on the dhamma either shifted or diluted. And this spurred counter-movements, or competing movements. The same thing continues to happen even today. You can see it in within the Thai Theravada tradition, and probably others as well.

Which brings to mind Bodhidharma's reply when the Emperor asked him what merits he has gained for ordaining monks, building temples, etc.

"None at all!"

[Hendrik]

Is the Shaolin temple Buddhist or Zen?

Does the fact that the Shaolin temple is either Buddhist or Zen have any bearing on how one practices one's Shaolin kung fu?

What is the difference between Buddhist and Zen?

Is there a Zen Martial Art? If so, how is Buddhist martial art different from Zen martial art?

Buddhism is a general term.

Zen is a teaching in Buddhism.

Zen is the path where one was directly coaching to "see" one's Buddha nature. This is the advance teaching of Buddhism which is equavalent with the Esoteric Buddhism's MahaMudra teaching.

Not everyone can practice Zen. One needs to have a certain level of depth before Zen could benifit one. It is not about thinking, it is let go the thinking and enter into silence and recognize one's buddha nature.

After one recognize one's buddha nature, one know there is nothing out there but everything is a transformation of one's own buddha nature, a creation of one's mind. and mind is an instrument of creation or an application of the buddhanature.


Zen and Shao lin's connection comes from BoddhiDharma the Buddhist patriach who brought Zen teaching to China reside in Shao Lin. So, Zen was spread from Shao lin to other part of China. Shaolin is a Buddhist temple which is specialized in Zen however not everyone there practice Zen because Zen is an advance path.


Shao Lin has a term called Zen and Martial art is non dual. This term means one could use martial art as a vehicle to coach one to recognize one's buddhanature. This term also could be understood by after one sees one's buddha nature, one sees everything as the transformation of buddha nature.

Thus, this term means, before seeing one's buddha nature, one could use martial art as a vehicle, after one recognize one's buddha nature, everything is buddha nature. Thus, that is practicing Zen 24/7/12.


However, one must be careful that not everyone is capable to do the above because one needs a certain quality before one could walk this path.

That is where the other Buddhism path comes into play.

IE. the reciting of Amitaba Buddha teaching. As one sees the Shao Lin monks carry the recitation of Chanting beads. This teaching is for those who is not suitable to practice Zen directly, so, one uses this recitation teaching to build up the Samadhi or Stillness or peace in nature or upto a certain degree before they could practice Zen effectively. This teaching much more suitable for general public then Zen.


Now, some one might believe they could practice zen directly. in most cases, if one is not having the quality needed, one could spend a life time going no where with Zen.


Zen is 1/1000 human type of teaching, where the reciting of Amitaba Buddha is a 1000/1000 human type of teaching. so one needs to get into a proper teaching to be benifit.




Hope this help.

[David Jamieson]

Buddhism is where you can really smell the shit. You know it's there and you want to act on that.

Zen is realizing that it's you that is the shit and there's nothing to be done about that.

Or not, does it really matter anyway?

[Scott R. Brown]

Or not, does it really matter anyway?

If one has Zen, what matters is...................

[Hendrik]

Zen is realizing that it's you that is the shit and there's nothing to be done about that.

Or not, does it really matter anyway?

if you realize it's you, since you are the boss, you create it then just let it go and dissolve.
Instead of there's is nothing to be done about that.


IT does really matter. This is because knowing it but cannot dissolve it means not really knowing it. That is not Zen at all.

Knowing it and be able to let go and resolve it is Zen.