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Thread: continuation of my liberal wing chun thread...terrence, please reply first

  1. 05-05-2010, 02:22 PM #1
    SavvySavage
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    continuation of my liberal wing chun thread...terrence, please reply first

    T_niehoff,

    when you said that people are already using wing chun in mma were you referring to Alan Orr? I do not know Alan and I'm sure he's talented but why do you call what he does wing chun? It doesn't look any different than what every other mma guy is doing in the octagon. Just because Alan calls it CSL wing chun that doesn't make it wing chun... Or does it? Alan might as well have never studied wing chun because he is basically doing the same as every other mma guy. The fact that he's been successful is due to him and not his style. GSP is successful but he doesn't claim any style. If GSP claimed bak mei does that mean he is doing bak mei? I feel like if I won fights in the octagon, claimed to be MAINLY studying wing chun, you would say that I'm doing wing chun too. Even if all my fights were rolling around on the ground you'd be like, "Savvysavage is clearly using wing chun.". But only cause I'm winning. I'm not attacking you. It just seems like you're front running a bit. If Alan was getting beaten to pulp every match would you still say he was using wing chun?


    We need to define wing chun because we've lost our identity. Or maybe others have been right all along. Wing chun(and all chinese martial arts) are just glorified kickboxing. Maybe we should stop holding on to the label wing chun because the way some of you describe it is too liberal.

    The labels and forms are bs. Fuk tan sau. Fuk the wooden dummy form. If you all say that wing chun needs those...but them you train bjj and win with that then you might as well stop practicing the forms, chi sao, etc. Just call it MMA and lose the wing chun.
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  2. 05-05-2010, 02:55 PM #2
    SAAMAG
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    Cocaine is a hell of a drug!
    "I don't know if anyone is known with the art of "sitting on your couch" here, but in my eyes it is also to be a martial art.

    It is the art of avoiding dangerous situations. It helps you to avoid a dangerous situation by not actually being there. So lets say there is a dangerous situation going on somewhere other than your couch. You are safely seated on your couch so you have in a nutshell "difused" the situation."
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  3. 05-05-2010, 03:44 PM #3
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    CFT
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    Quote Originally Posted by SavvySavage View Post
    Just because Alan calls it CSL wing chun that doesn't make it wing chun... Or does it? Alan might as well have never studied wing chun because he is basically doing the same as every other mma guy. The fact that he's been successful is due to him and not his style.
    It's not just him, it's his students too. So the skill is not just at a personal level. He has a repeatable process of skill transference, a system if you will. CSLWCK is just part of that process.
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  4. 05-05-2010, 04:17 PM #4
    SavvySavage
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    I understand that cslWck is just a part of that process. But whenever Alan puts up a thread about it he gives all credit to the wing chun so he is not saying it is a part but a bulk of the reason he is winning.


    I'd like anyone to show me what exactly in Allan's matches "is" wing chun. THis is my problem with the too liberal definition of wing chun. I hope I don't get answers like, "It's all wing chun." Great. Wonderful. If one could claim it than one could point it out clearly. As I said before, if George St. Pierre claimed that bak mei was the reason he was winning would we believe him and call bak mei a great art?

    What is wing chun...and where is it used exactly in the mma?
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  5. 05-05-2010, 05:01 PM #5
    Ultimatewingchun
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    Sits down on couch with a big bag of chips and a six pack of dark beer - because this thread is going to get hilarious!!!
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  6. 05-05-2010, 05:05 PM #6
    Knifefighter
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    Quote Originally Posted by SavvySavage View Post
    Alan might as well have never studied wing chun because he is basically doing the same as every other mma guy..
    Wing Chun the way you think it is "supposed" to look looks nothing like the way you think it is supposed to look when you are fighting against an MMA fighter.

    It looks different because it doesn't work the way you think it is supposed to work. People who fight full contact against skilled opponents from other styles (especially if grappling is involved) usually figure this out pretty quickly.
    Last edited by Knifefighter; 05-05-2010 at 05:08 PM.
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  7. 05-05-2010, 05:10 PM #7
    SavvySavage
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    Knifefighter,
    I agree with you. In fact I never said wing chun is supposed to look like anything. I'm just trying to find out what the definition of wing chun is if Terrence is claiming that Alan Uses it to win mma matches. I think it's a fair question.

    What the heck is wck? Is it the forms, the kuit, the techniques?

    I don't believe any of the forms need practicing after a while.
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  8. 05-05-2010, 05:11 PM #8
    SAAMAG
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    You should look at Alans nhb extreme wing chun series. It will answer all your questions and perhaps open up some areas of opportunity in your own training. I know it's done well to open my mind.
    Last edited by SAAMAG; 05-05-2010 at 05:13 PM.
    "I don't know if anyone is known with the art of "sitting on your couch" here, but in my eyes it is also to be a martial art.

    It is the art of avoiding dangerous situations. It helps you to avoid a dangerous situation by not actually being there. So lets say there is a dangerous situation going on somewhere other than your couch. You are safely seated on your couch so you have in a nutshell "difused" the situation."
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  9. 05-05-2010, 05:12 PM #9
    SAAMAG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knifefighter View Post
    Wing Chun the way you think it is "supposed" to look looks nothing like the way you think it is supposed to look when you are fighting against an MMA fighter.

    It looks different because it doesn't work the way you think it is supposed to work. People who fight full contact against skilled opponents from other styles (especially if grappling is involved) usually figure this out pretty quickly.
    As a side note: Fighting in mma does not equate to being skilled. There are different levels of "skill" in mma just as in any other venue.
    Last edited by SAAMAG; 05-05-2010 at 05:17 PM.
    "I don't know if anyone is known with the art of "sitting on your couch" here, but in my eyes it is also to be a martial art.

    It is the art of avoiding dangerous situations. It helps you to avoid a dangerous situation by not actually being there. So lets say there is a dangerous situation going on somewhere other than your couch. You are safely seated on your couch so you have in a nutshell "difused" the situation."
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  10. 05-05-2010, 05:14 PM #10
    MysteriousPower
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    CSL wing chun IMO looks like tai chi push hands with hitting. What exactly is so special about this method?
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  11. 05-05-2010, 05:15 PM #11
    Knifefighter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vankuen View Post
    Fighting in mma does not equal skilled. Let's get real here.
    OK, I'm fine with that. Let me rephrase.

    It looks different because it doesn't work the way you think it is supposed to work. People who fight full contact against any kind of opponent from other styles (especially if grappling is involved) usually figure this out pretty quickly.
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  12. 05-05-2010, 05:16 PM #12
    Knifefighter
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    Quote Originally Posted by MysteriousPower View Post
    What exactly is so special about this method?
    It actually works... unlike push hands with hitting.
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  13. 05-05-2010, 05:26 PM #13
    SavvySavage
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    Knifefighter,

    I think you're just saying it works because Alan Orr is winning and says he uses csl wck. If he claimed karate like Machida we'd be talking about karate.

    HOW does it work? When, where. What fight?
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  14. 05-05-2010, 05:29 PM #14
    SAAMAG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knifefighter View Post
    OK, I'm fine with that. Let me rephrase.

    It looks different because it doesn't work the way you think it is supposed to work. People who fight full contact against any kind of opponent from other styles (especially if grappling is involved) usually figure this out pretty quickly.
    Agreed sir.
    "I don't know if anyone is known with the art of "sitting on your couch" here, but in my eyes it is also to be a martial art.

    It is the art of avoiding dangerous situations. It helps you to avoid a dangerous situation by not actually being there. So lets say there is a dangerous situation going on somewhere other than your couch. You are safely seated on your couch so you have in a nutshell "difused" the situation."
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  15. 05-05-2010, 05:29 PM #15
    SAAMAG
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    Quote Originally Posted by SavvySavage View Post
    Knifefighter,

    I think you're just saying it works because Alan Orr is winning and says he uses csl wck. If he claimed karate like Machida we'd be talking about karate.

    HOW does it work? When, where. What fight?
    Seriously, look at Alan's NHB series. It will save you a lot of typing.
    "I don't know if anyone is known with the art of "sitting on your couch" here, but in my eyes it is also to be a martial art.

    It is the art of avoiding dangerous situations. It helps you to avoid a dangerous situation by not actually being there. So lets say there is a dangerous situation going on somewhere other than your couch. You are safely seated on your couch so you have in a nutshell "difused" the situation."
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