Robert Chu's Master Class DVD

[Knifefighter]

Well if it's good at "keeping them off you" as in Rashun and you.. You have to add in the actual impact of the strikes.. See how that works?

VT doesn't run away. The main idea of VT is to project energy into the opponent, intended to do damage and take his base away in order to stall his attempt to go offensive..

I think we are seeing more, not less VT in MMA and other venues.. Give it time and we will see what happens.. No need to guess.

It doesn't work anymore when you try to add in full contact strikes. Now you get taken down.

[YungChun]

Really? Do know where the Dog Bros started? In someone's backyard. Do you know how many people were interested in this in the beginning? About 6 or 7. Do you know how BJJ started in the states? In a garage with about 9 people who were actually interested, while everyone else thought it was stupid.

If something is actually good and workable, number of people or location doesn't matter. Result easily speak for themselves.

C'mon Dale..

Even big name teachers have precious few students (if any) who want to train hard core or compete in MMA...

I am a nobody and have enough trouble finding people to train with at all, let alone train for MMA..

[sanjuro_ronin]

Well if it's good at "keeping them off you" as in Rashun and you.. You have to add in the actual impact of the strikes.. See how that works?

VT doesn't run away. The main idea of VT is to project energy into the opponent, intended to do damage and take his base away in order to stall his attempt to go offensive..

I think we are seeing more, not less VT in MMA and other venues.. Give it time and we will see what happens.. No need to guess.

You guys keep bringing up Rashun and you really shouldn't.
To guys being cool with each other and helping each other in a park does NOT make for an "example" of anything.

[sanjuro_ronin]

C'mon Dale..

Even big name teachers have precious few students (if any) who want to train hard core or compete in MMA...

I am a nobody and have enough trouble finding people to train with at all, let alone train for MMA..

I run through partners faster than Tiger Woods !!

[YungChun]

You guys keep bringing up Rashun and you really shouldn't.
To guys being cool with each other and helping each other in a park does NOT make for an "example" of anything.

I only mention it in the context Dale has...(keeping him off, etc)

[sanjuro_ronin]

I only mention it in the context Dale has...(keeping him off, etc)

Playful play has no context.

Fact is, and this has nothing to do with Dale or Rashun, adding FULL power strikes into the mix changes a lot, just like adding take downs does.

The key to striking in MMA is either:
Striking to keep opponent busy and set up the TD.
Striking to KO the MOFU.
One thing that WC guys are NOT know for is KO power.
Fast hands and sticking, yes, KO power, not so much.

When you think of MA and think of KO power or knock down fighting, does WC pop into your head?

[YungChun]

Playful play has no context.

Fact is, and this has nothing to do with Dale or Rashun, adding FULL power strikes into the mix changes a lot, just like adding take downs does.

It's an example Dale has used..

I never refer to it as proof of anything.

The key to striking in MMA is either:
Striking to keep opponent busy and set up the TD.
Striking to KO the MOFU.

Striking is striking.. VT striking is intended for the above as well as to break structure.

One thing that WC guys are NOT know for is KO power.
Fast hands and sticking, yes, KO power, not so much.

VT is known for suking azz...

That's not what it was intended for however..

Crazy egg beaters and reaching for hands may well be what VT is known for.. However I would never do that or teach that.

When you think of MA and think of KO power or knock down fighting, does WC pop into your head?

Good VT has powerful striking.... Bad VT has all kinds of things in it that I would prefer to forget.

I have said before, that if I had a school I would use the Kyokushin knockdown match (modified with headshots) as a standard. If everyone did that then VT WOULD be known for it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

It's an example Dale has used..

I never refer to it as proof of anything.



Striking is striking.. VT striking is intended for the above as well as to break structure.


VT is known for suking azz...

That's not what it was intended for however..

Crazy egg beaters and reaching for hands may well be what VT is known for.. However I would never do that or teach that.


Good VT has powerful striking.... Bad VT has all kinds of things in it that I would prefer to forget.

But we can't forget it, can we Jim?
Nope.
When I first started WC. Nelson Chan said that power was something I didn't have to worry about, I already had that form Boxing and Karate, which put me ahead of most WC guys.
He was right, even when changing to a short hand system, the learning curve was almost nil because the power helped.
I also have short stubby arms

But we know that Power is NOT something WC is know for.

[YungChun]

But we know that Power is NOT something WC is know for.

It's not known for lots of things.. What's the point?

As I said, if you train to use KO power you will have power.. IE training the Kyokushin way with VT..

Most folks don't know how to use the VT mechanics to make power. I came from Karate so you know what I mean...

It's not that VT doesn't have these things.. It's that those who are representing the art don't or very few do.

[sanjuro_ronin]

It's not known for lots of things.. What's the point?

The point is that it SHOULD be.
Not every one in MT is a KO artist, or in boxing or in kyokushin, far from that, but no one every accuse those systems of NOT developing powerful strikers and there is proof of that.

[Vajramusti]

But we know that Power is NOT something WC is know for.

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Depends- who what where and when.

joy chaudhuri

[YungChun]

The point is that it SHOULD be.
Not every one in MT is a KO artist, or in boxing or in kyokushin, far from that, but no one every accuse those systems of NOT developing powerful strikers and there is proof of that.

I agree, but there's no such thing as should.. There is only what is and what is not..

It makes me laugh--the idea that VT doesn't have power.. The mechanics are there if only folks would use them... But they have the Crazy Eggbeater in their heads.. The teachers can't find their azz with both hands.. Etc, etc......

All anyone needs are some VT basics... Then go fight... If the center of the training was based on let's say, power and results then BANG! you have an entirely new face (the old face) of VT..

If I had lots of money I might try to finance such as school, but I don't...

[sanjuro_ronin]

Joy and Jim, I agree, it depends of who is doing the WC, of course.
But since we are speaking in generalizations about other systems, we can do that about WC too.
And gym, I also agree that the WC of the past did have a lot more power, probably because they fought more and did less demos showing off the speed of their chain punches.

[YungChun]

Joy and Jim, I agree, it depends of who is doing the WC, of course.
But since we are speaking in generalizations about other systems, we can do that about WC too.
And gym, I also agree that the WC of the past did have a lot more power, probably because they fought more and did less demos showing off the speed of their chain punches.

It comes down to what "effective" means...

When it means $$$$ instead of KOs then you get what you asked for.

Then there is the problem of finding the way back..........

[SAAMAG]

Joy and Jim, I agree, it depends of who is doing the WC, of course.
But since we are speaking in generalizations about other systems, we can do that about WC too.
And gym, I also agree that the WC of the past did have a lot more power, probably because they fought more and did less demos showing off the speed of their chain punches.

I agree that my MT feels more powerful than my wing chun in some ways (like my cross versus the chung choi). But then it's a different type of power. Like Terence stated before the knight's lance analogy, or Robert's nail and hammer one, then there's Leung's ball and chain/rope as well.

I pretty much punch using whipping power in all forms. Nothing is ever tensed and is done loosely until impact. Scott says it should be done loosely even upon impact and then driven through to release the energy inside the target. Different strokes for different folks.