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Thread: Obama the biggest recipient of BP oil cash

  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    Actually, inflation was UP 2% in March. You may want to check your sources on that.

    Source:
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100503...20100503125400

    "Americans saw prices rise two percent in the year to March according to the Commerce Department's personal consumption expenditures index published on Monday.

    The figure, which is closely watched by the Federal Reserve as a sign of broader inflation levels, is approaching the maximum the central bank normally considers sustainable."
    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.nr0.htm

    Consumer Price Index - March 2010

    On a seasonally adjusted basis, the Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers (CPI-U) increased 0.1 percent in March, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. Over the last 12 months, the index increased 2.3 percent before seasonal adjustment.
    http://www.usinflationcalculator.com...march/1000690/

    Inflation remained tame in March, as U.S. consumer prices edged only slightly higher due mostly to higher fresh fruits and vegetables costs, the Labor Department reported Wednesday.

    The Consumer Price Index, the government’s most closely watched reading for inflation at the consumer level, rose 0.1% in March. February’s CPI was flat and marked the first time prices had not advanced since March 2009.
    http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnal...aspx?id=530286

    Inflation was subdued in March with prices up 0.1%, as expected, due mostly to higher costs for fruits and vegetables, the Labor Dept. said. The government's closely watched core CPI was unchanged, in line with estimates. The core rate is up 1.1% from last year, the smallest gain since early 2004. That may give the Federal Reserve reason to maintain low interest rates.
    Try again.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    And here the Fed admits it will increase in 2011:

    "Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia President Charles Plosser said prices may rise 2.5 percent in 2011, a rate well above central bankers’ preferred range, and cautioned against complacency on inflation.

    “The economy may be at greater risk of inflation than the conventional wisdom indicates,” Plosser said in a speech yesterday in New York.
    Gee, I don't see the word will in those quotes. I see the word may. Just because something "may" happen doesn't mean that it "will" happen. Reading is fundamental.

    I notice you ignored the part in my post about taxes.
    Last edited by Reality_Check; 05-11-2010 at 03:56 PM.
    1bad65, you make me laugh. Dare I say it? You seem to be suffering from ODS (Obama Derangement Syndrome).

    "I didn't vote for him but he's my president, and I hope he does a good job." - John Wayne

    Clearly you want President Obama to fail, or else you wouldn't bring up every little thing you can to try and discredit him and his Administration. You seems to be actively hoping for failure.

    Perhaps you can take a lesson from The Duke.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reality_Check View Post
    Try again.
    So we both have sources that disagree. OK.

    Look at it this way, can you show one civilization/coutry.etc that printed money in large quntities it did not have and didn't have inflation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reality_Check View Post
    Gee, I don't see the word will in those quotes. I see the word may. Just because something "may" happen doesn't mean that it "will" happen. Reading is fundamental.
    I posted a guy with experience saying it may happen. Whats the problem there? Of course as I pointed out earlier, I have history on my side. When countries print paper money thay don't really have, inflation is sure to follow unless they get their debt under control. And Obama is ramping up spending!
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reality_Check View Post
    I notice you ignored the part in my post about taxes.
    I'd like the source of that part.

    I want to see the source and read how they came up with the percentage they did.

    Keep in mind, we just recently found out almost 50% of Americans are paying 0% in income taxes. That is an all time high. So you have the largest percent of Americans in history paying 0%, and thus bringing the average way down.

    I'd wager that the percentage of taxes WORKING AMERICANS are paying is at or near all time highs.
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    I posted a guy with experience saying it may happen. Whats the problem there?
    Nice backpedal attempt.

    You stated:

    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    And here the Fed admits it will increase in 2011:
    As I stated "may" and "will" do not mean the same thing.
    1bad65, you make me laugh. Dare I say it? You seem to be suffering from ODS (Obama Derangement Syndrome).

    "I didn't vote for him but he's my president, and I hope he does a good job." - John Wayne

    Clearly you want President Obama to fail, or else you wouldn't bring up every little thing you can to try and discredit him and his Administration. You seems to be actively hoping for failure.

    Perhaps you can take a lesson from The Duke.

  5. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    I want to see the source and read how they came up with the percentage they did.

    Keep in mind, we just recently found out almost 50% of Americans are paying 0% in income taxes. That is an all time high. So you have the largest percent of Americans in history paying 0%, and thus bringing the average way down.

    I'd wager that the percentage of taxes WORKING AMERICANS are paying is at or near all time highs.
    Well, you'd have to ask USA Today for the source.

    Regarding your oft stated claim about income taxes:

    Quote Originally Posted by Reality_Check View Post
    As much as I tried to stay away...

    Your article says nothing about payroll taxes, which make up the majority of the middle class tax burden. It's also dated October 13, 2008

    http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...&postcount=794

    Quote Originally Posted by Reality_Check
    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65
    I'm referring to income taxes. They are BY FAR the largest percentage of taxes the middle class pays.
    Actually, no (page 19, Chart 5)....

    http://www.kc.frb.org/PUBLICAT/ECONR.../4q06davig.pdf
    From my link: "Since payroll taxes are paid only up to a certain amount of income, payroll taxes comprise a larger share of the tax liability for low- and middle-income households versus high-income households. Mitrusi and Poterba (2000) estimated that payroll taxes were higher than federal income taxes for 44 percent of all U.S. households in 1979, and that percentage increased to 67 percent in 1999."

    Have you looked at the actual stimulus bill?

    Enjoy (tax package): http://www.rules.house.gov/111/LegTe...legtext_cr.pdf

    Here is a summary of the tax plan for individuals: http://projects.nytimes.com/44th_pre...or-individuals

    Please see this article regarding the "Making Work Pay" credit: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...&type=business

    I see nothing about mailing checks out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reality_Check View Post
    Once again you are stating that 40% of Americans pay no income tax. Let's stipulate that. However, I've already shown that:

    "Since payroll taxes are paid only up to a certain amount of income, payroll taxes comprise a larger share of the tax liability for low- and middle-income households versus high-income households. Mitrusi and Poterba (2000) estimated that payroll taxes were higher than federal income taxes for 44 percent of all U.S. households in 1979, and that percentage increased to 67 percent in 1999."

    So, the implication that these people do not pay into the system is suspect.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    I'm talking about income tax, which is the biggest tax those who pay it pay.
    Ah...but for low to middle income Americans the payroll tax is "the biggest tax those who pay it pay."
    Quote Originally Posted by Reality_Check View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    RC,

    Why are you hammering me on payroll taxes?

    I'm on record saying they should be abolished.
    Just trying to put the stake into the heart of the "people who don't pay income taxes don't contribute" canard that you have been pushing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    Well Obama is for 'The People'. He is just for the people who don't pay income taxes and who got themselves into financial messes by signing ARMs on houses they couldn't afford.
    http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...613#post882613

    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65
    I'm referring to income taxes. They are BY FAR the largest percentage of taxes the middle class pays.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    Speaking of taxes, how do you feel about everyone paying income taxes?

    I'm all for it. As it is now, we have millions of people who do not have to pay any income taxes, yet getting to vote for representatives who set tax policy that will not affect them, but will affect millions of others who are actually contributing.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    I looked it up for you. And it looks like you don't even have to pick the check up, they are gonna send it to you.

    "Barack Obama says he will give 95 percent of all American workers a tax cut but does not mention that his plan would send checks to tens of millions of tax filers who pay no personal income taxes - payments that critics say look "suspiciously like welfare."

    Mr. Obama's campaign promise, which he has repeated in his speeches and in the presidential debates, stems from his "Making Work Pay" tax cut that will give a $500 refundable tax credit to every worker or $1,000 to each working couple. But because this provision in his economic-recovery plan is "refundable," a large number of middle- to lower-income workers who have no income-tax liability after taking tax credits and deductions the that Internal Revenue Service allows, will be given the equivalent of the tax cut in the form of direct payments from the U.S. Treasury - funded by higher-income taxpayers."

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-who-dont-pay/
    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    Well keep in mind 40% don't pay any income taxes. So I don't consider that fair either.

    The problem I have with certain people not having to pay taxes others do, is that they can vote to raise other people's taxes, while they don't even have to pay any themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    That's true. But if everyone had to pay SOMETHING, it would be more fair than the system we have now where ~40% pay NOTHING.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    I think it shows the tax inequities.

    While some pay NOTHING, many others pay over 35%. That's not fair.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    "During 2006, Tax Foundation economists estimate that roughly 43.4 million tax returns, representing 91 million individuals, will face a zero or negative tax liability. That's out of a total of 136 million federal tax returns that will be filed. Adding to this figure the 15 million households and individuals who file no tax return at all, roughly 121 million Americans—or 41 percent of the U.S. population—will be completely outside the federal income tax system in 2006.1 This total includes those who pay no tax, and those who pay some tax upfront and are later refunded the full amount of the tax paid or more."

    http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/1410.html
    People who don't pay income taxes do pay payroll taxes. Hence, they contribute. As such they should certainly have a voice in tax policy, no?
    You always make claims regarding income tax, yet you never mention payroll taxes. Hmm...is that because it undermines your "we are over taxed!" claim?

    In addition, if more people are paying less in income taxes, doesn't that mean taxes have gone down?
    Last edited by Reality_Check; 05-12-2010 at 08:17 AM.
    1bad65, you make me laugh. Dare I say it? You seem to be suffering from ODS (Obama Derangement Syndrome).

    "I didn't vote for him but he's my president, and I hope he does a good job." - John Wayne

    Clearly you want President Obama to fail, or else you wouldn't bring up every little thing you can to try and discredit him and his Administration. You seems to be actively hoping for failure.

    Perhaps you can take a lesson from The Duke.

  6. #81
    Continuation of the previous post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reality_Check View Post
    Well, this is interesting:

    http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/22340.html

    In the rush to file their federal income tax forms for tax year 2006, Americans may not look closely enough at their W-2s and may not realize the true economic incidence of payroll taxes; they may not realize that they probably paid more in federal payroll taxes than in federal income taxes last year. Most economists agree that virtually all of the payroll tax burden is borne by workers, even that portion that is legally paid by the employer. And so when we count that as a tax on the worker, we begin to realize that this 15.3 percent tax rate can be higher than the income tax rate that these individuals are paying; most of them lie below the Social Security cap ($97,500) and fall in the 10 and 15 percent taxable income brackets (with possibly some income being taxed at the 25 percent rate). Only for high-income earners or those who earn most of their income in non-wage form will their income tax burden exceed their payroll tax burden.

    The Tax Foundation recently released a Fiscal Fact looking at how different types of taxes weigh differently on different income groups. Among the study's highlights (from 2004 data):

    For households in the bottom 20 percent of the income scale, the average payroll tax burden per household for tax year 2004 was $917, while the average federal income tax burden per household (excluding refundable portion of EITC) was $171.

    For the middle income group, the average payroll taxes paid per household was nearly double the average federal income tax.

    For the bottom 40 percent of households, property taxes, payroll taxes, and state/local general sales taxes was each a larger hit on households than the federal individual income tax.

    The federal individual income tax is much more progressive than state/local income taxes. As a quick illustration, for every dollar in federal individual income taxes paid by the middle income group, the top quintile paid $7.86 in federal individual income taxes. At the state/local individual income tax level, that number was $5.36.

    Individual income taxes at both the federal and state/local level drive the bulk of the progressivity in the entire tax system. As a quick illustration, for every dollar of total taxes paid by the middle income group in 2004 at all levels of government, the top quintile paid $3.87 in taxes. However, excluding all individual income taxes, that number drops to around $2.82.

    The bottom quintile pays more in taxes on tobacco and alcohol (at all levels) than in federal individual income taxes, even after excluding the refundable portion of EITC.

    For more on how different types of households are hit harder by different types of taxes, check out the full working paper on which these numbers are based.

    http://www.urban.org/publications/1001065.html

    Two-Thirds of Tax Units Pay More Payroll Tax Than Income Tax

    April 15 is synonymous with taxes in the United States, but most Americans actually pay more payroll taxes than federal income taxes. In 2006 workers and employers each paid 6.2 percent Social Security tax on the first $94,200 of earnings and 1.45 percent Medicare tax on all wages. While the statutory obligation to pay payroll taxes is split evenly between workers and employers, most economists believe that the employer tax usually translates into lower wages, so workers bear the full burden of the tax. Thus, the total payroll tax rate equals 15.3 percent of earnings for most workers.

    About two-thirds of taxpayers owed more payroll taxes (including the employer portion) than individual income taxes in 2006. Many households (including most retirees) do not have any wage income and thus pay no payroll tax. Among households with wage earners, 86 percent have higher payroll taxes than income taxes, including almost all of those with incomes less than $40,000 and 94 percent of those with incomes less than $100,000. If only the employee portion of payroll taxes is considered, 44 percent of taxpayers and 56 percent of wage earners pay more payroll tax than income tax, including nearly 80 percent of earners with incomes less than $50,000.
    1bad65, you make me laugh. Dare I say it? You seem to be suffering from ODS (Obama Derangement Syndrome).

    "I didn't vote for him but he's my president, and I hope he does a good job." - John Wayne

    Clearly you want President Obama to fail, or else you wouldn't bring up every little thing you can to try and discredit him and his Administration. You seems to be actively hoping for failure.

    Perhaps you can take a lesson from The Duke.

  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    So we both have sources that disagree. OK.
    Yeah, but my first source is the Bureau of Labor Statistics, which is the entity that measures inflation. So...
    1bad65, you make me laugh. Dare I say it? You seem to be suffering from ODS (Obama Derangement Syndrome).

    "I didn't vote for him but he's my president, and I hope he does a good job." - John Wayne

    Clearly you want President Obama to fail, or else you wouldn't bring up every little thing you can to try and discredit him and his Administration. You seems to be actively hoping for failure.

    Perhaps you can take a lesson from The Duke.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reality_Check View Post
    Yeah, but my first source is the Bureau of Labor Statistics, which is the entity that measures inflation. So...
    so you win. TO put it simply, 1bad's sources can almost always be safely regarded as overly biased and not supported by facts and evidence and instead littered with hearsay and supposition.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reality_Check View Post
    You always make claims regarding income tax, yet you never mention payroll taxes. Hmm...is that because it undermines your "we are over taxed!" claim?
    I've used the term "total taxes" multiple times on here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reality_Check View Post
    In addition, if more people are paying less in income taxes, doesn't that mean taxes have gone down?
    We are? When did we last get an income tax cut?

    And no, it doesn't mean they (total taxes) went down. Travis County (where I live) has been raising property taxes at higher rates recently.
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    so you win. TO put it simply, 1bad's sources can almost always be safely regarded as overly biased and not supported by facts and evidence and instead littered with hearsay and supposition.
    Oh bull****. Prove it.
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

  11. #86
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    Let me make something clear on taxes.

    Working Americans who actually pay income taxes are paying higher rates in total taxes than they have historically. Of course if you average in the ~47% of Americans who pay 0 income taxes into the equation, the average is going to come out lower. I'm not counting the comsumers in our society, obviously they don't even pay income taxes, I'm counting the producers.
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

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