Wing Chun, mma, and the future

[wkmark]

Just FYI, There are couple upcoming tournaments in ASIA for Wing Chun/Ving Tsun, etc. It is aimed more towards Yip Man Wing Chun. From what i recall, the below are what is being competed:

1.) Forms
2.) Chi Sao Competition (which I really don't understand) but whatevers.
3.) Team Full Contact Sparring (teams of 5)
4.) Individual Full Contact Sparring. (Based on weight class and separated by age)

How they are judging on forms and Chi Sao Competitions i am not 100% sure but I can get the information. It's all in Chinese and I need to take a look.

However for the sparring, it's similar to Sanda. Gears required are specially made for Wing Chun sparring. They are Full face mask with the eye slit area open, Chest protector, Opened fingerer gloves but are about 6 oz. Elbow pads, as well as shin guards.

From what I understand points are counted for doing the following:

1.) Hits to the face
2.) Hits to either sides of the jaw or underneathe.
3.) Hits to the ears
4.) Body hits
5.) Front kick
6.) Side Kick (No points for round kicks)
7.) Hits to the back.
8.) Elbow strikes are allowed but not to the top of the head.
9.) Take Downs are counted as points in a sense that whoever can take their opponent down to their 1 knee is awarded a point
10.) Forcing someone off the mat.

Illegal moves are:
1.) Hit to the throat
2.) Hit to the back of the head
3.) hit to the back of the neck
4.) Hit to the groin
5.) Finger jab to the Eye
6.) no Fish hook type to the mouth,

They are 2 minute rounds. Total of 3 rounds, I think.


I think the above are what they are working on. The earliest Match I believe will be in Malaysia, which I think is in June. There is another one in August in Hong Kong. The last one being in Either September or October in China.

The Malaysia one and China one is already firmed. I am not sure about the Hong Kong one. This is being organised in conjunction with the World Wing Chun Union.

I will let you all know if anyone gets seriously injured or how the fights turn out. I personally will be entering the Full Contact in Hong Kong if that actually happens.

The above is based on some general summary. The full manual is too thick and all in Chinese for me to read. I will eventually take a look. So If anyone needs anymore information, you can PM me for details or specific questions.

[Knifefighter]

LOL @ even worrying about incorporating WC into MMA. Why even care? Do you think BJJ, Sambo, Muay Thai, wrestling, and Judo people sit around hoping that someday their stuff will be "incorporated" into MMA? No, what they do is just go out and do it. Only in the TMA world do you have people critiquing whether or not their system is or will be used in MMA.

If you think it can be incorporated into MMA, then go out and do it (either yourself or fighters you are training). Otherwise you are just another theoretical, fantasy, pretend, non-fighter.

[Ultimatewingchun]

"LOL @ even worrying about incorporating WC into MMA. Why even care?" (Knifefighter)
..................................

***THIS IS SUCH an interesting remark. The same guy who told us that Alan Orr's guys are a good example of using wing chun in mma....

now tells us that WC can't be incorporated into mma.

You've been hangin' out with Niehoff?

Drinkin' buddies or something?

I know, he put you into a wing chun bil jee guillotine and cut off a little too much air to your brain !!!

Take a few deep breaths, Dale...

Feelin' better now?

[Matrix]

now tells us that WC can't be incorporated into mma.

If you read Dale's comment in full, he doesn't say that at all. He said in the same post "If you think it can be incorporated into MMA, then go out and do it".
Do it, or don't do it. Just don't theorize it to death.

What's the problem with that?

[Knifefighter]

"LOL @ even worrying about incorporating WC into MMA. Why even care?" (Knifefighter)
..................................

***THIS IS SUCH an interesting remark. The same guy who told us that Alan Orr's guys are a good example of using wing chun in mma....

now tells us that WC can't be incorporated into mma.

You've been hangin' out with Niehoff?

Drinkin' buddies or something?

I know, he put you into a wing chun bil jee guillotine and cut off a little too much air to your brain !!!

Take a few deep breaths, Dale...

Feelin' better now?

Seems like you are the one who lost some brain cells from being choked out. Where did I say it can't be done. I said go out and do it. If you aren't doing it, you are just a theoretical non-fighter.

[Ultimatewingchun]

And what I said on the first post of this thread is how I'm going about making my wing chun mma functional. It's not theory, it's exactly what I've been working on with my students for a good 7-8 years now, step-by-step. The fact that the small group I have at the moment hasn't yet resulted in one of them entering an mma event doesn't change anything.

It still is what it is.

And when I said that I believe this kind of road for wing chun will happen, I'm not just talking about myself. If you've been reading the Rick Spain thread, you can easily come away with some very similar conclusions, ie.- what I posted is very similar to what he's been working on, it would seem.

And knowing Keith Mazza as well as I do, those guys coming out of his school (and don't forget that Phil Redmond has been teaching at Keith's school for the last 4-5 years or so - with a NYC class being something he just started within the last year or so)...

I believe those guys within Keith and Phil's domain are heading down a path that will ultimately lead to something very similar to what I mentioned on that post as well.

I see it coming. They might perhaps disagree with me at the moment, but I see it coming.

And it's not necessarily only TWC people who might travel such a road either, imo.

[Frost]

And what I said on the first post of this thread is how I'm going about making my wing chun mma functional. It's not theory, it's exactly what I've been working on with my students for a good 7-8 years now, step-by-step. The fact that the small group I have at the moment hasn't yet resulted in one of them entering an mma event doesn't change anything.

It still is what it is.

And when I said that I believe this kind of road for wing chun will happen, I'm not just talking about myself. If you've been reading the Rick Spain thread, you can easily come away with some very similar conclusions, ie.- what I posted is very similar to what he's been working on, it would seem.

And knowing Keith Mazza as well as I do, those guys coming out of his school (and don't forget that Phil Redmond has been teaching at Keith's school for the last 4-5 years or so - with a NYC class being something he just started within the last year or so)...

I believe those guys within Keith and Phil's domain are heading down a path that will ultimately lead to something very similar to what I mentioned on that post as well.

I see it coming. They might perhaps disagree with me at the moment, but I see it coming.

And it's not necessarily only TWC people who might travel such a road either, imo.

you have been working on it for a good 8 years and you still can't get it to a point where 1 student... just 1.... is good enough to enter a local amature event....if i was you i would seriously consider changing the way you teach and your overall approach you must be doing something seriously wrong

[Niersun]

From my perspective. The reason you see more karate, BJJ, Kick Boxers, sambo in MMA over Wing Chun is that there is sporting events for these styles where people want to compete and the natural thing to do is up the challenge and go into MMA to make more money.

Honestly, the only thing that Wing Chun will bring to MMA is blocking.

Do we really need to prove ourselves to the MA community and compete in MMA??? Are we really that insecure about our techniques and ability to fight???

[Niersun]

you have been working on it for a good 8 years and you still can't get it to a point where 1 student... just 1.... is good enough to enter a local amature event....if i was you i would seriously consider changing the way you teach and your overall approach you must be doing something seriously wrong

How is this comment constructive?

[Frost]

How is this comment constructive?

Well criticism can be constructive.....I think we should all look at our training from time to time don't you?
what I am saying that if he has been following a certain path for 8 years and training what he calls an MMA way and yet not one of his students is ready to compete at any level then maybe he should stop telling people what the future of MMA will look like and how wing chun will fit in with it and look at his own training system

[HumbleWCGuy]

you have been working on it for a good 8 years and you still can't get it to a point where 1 student... just 1.... is good enough to enter a local amature event....if i was you i would seriously consider changing the way you teach and your overall approach you must be doing something seriously wrong

Some of it has to do with being able to get good athletes. A lot of the good athletes want to fight. Assuming that his training principles are otherwise sound, he probably should try a different recruitment strategy. Give out some scholarships to some athletic poor kids or something.

When I came into WC, my whole deal was that I fully intended to, "stomp some a$$," because I had a serious need to defend myself. I don't know that people get into it for the same reasons anymore.

[Frost]

Some of it has to do with being able to get good athletes. A lot of the good athletes want to fight. Assuming that his training principles are otherwise sound, he probably should try a different recruitment strategy. Give out some scholarships to some athletic poor kids or something.

When I came into WC, my whole deal was that I fully intended to, "stomp some a$$," because I had a serious need to defend myself. I don't know that people get into it for the same reasons anymore.

some of it is down to the students, but if they have been with him for years during the MMA evolution he is going through why did they stay if they were not interested in MMA?

don't you think its a bit odd that he has been taking an MMA approach to training for 8 years with his students, doing wing chun boxing grappling etc and he is telling people this is the way of the future and how boxing can help wing chun against a good fighter, how catch is a great MMA grappling style and how wing chun will be the future of MMA but he has yet to field 1 fighter in MMA, kickboxing, boxing a smoker or any other format?

[goju]

Do we really need to prove ourselves to the MA community and compete in MMA??? Are we really that insecure about our techniques and ability to fight???

i think largely yes thats why there is more talk about mma in this sub forum than there is in the mma sub forum lol

[HumbleWCGuy]

some of it is down to the students, but if they have been with him for years during the MMA evolution he is going through why did they stay if they were not interested in MMA?

don't you think its a bit odd that he has been taking an MMA approach to training for 8 years with his students, doing wing chun boxing grappling etc and he is telling people this is the way of the future and how boxing can help wing chun against a good fighter, how catch is a great MMA grappling style and how wing chun will be the future of MMA but he has yet to field 1 fighter in MMA, kickboxing, boxing a smoker or any other format?

That's a good question. My whole thing is this. If a person does not compete (and make a decent showing) in something full-contact, they cannot become an instructor. If they want to do some points, forms, this that and the other, that's all fine for the lower ranks, but you just can't promote people who can't do that. It's the lack of this simple requirement that is the source of endless debate on this forum. If people want to LARP, theorize, and study culture, GREAT! But, my position has been and always will be that WC is a fighting art.

Think about this... If fighting at least one smoker and making a decent showing were a requirement, how many WCers, masters and grandmasters included, would be certified?

[YungChun]

That's a good question. My whole thing is this. If a person does not compete (and make a decent showing) in something full-contact, they cannot become an instructor. If they want to do some points, forms, this that and the other, that's all fine for the lower ranks, but you just can't promote people who can't do that. It's the lack of this simple requirement that is the source of endless debate on this forum. If people want to LARP, theorize, and study culture, GREAT! But, my position has been and always will be that WC is a fighting art.

What is the standard in Judo for becoming an instructor level? How about BJJ?

I think a standard like that would be great, in fact I think a similar standard to what Judo does would also be great for all promotions. But how do you get any standards going?

I suppose one school could adopt this kind of standard and then it might proliferate...and become a new standard..