Wing Chun, mma, and the future

[goju]

i think in kk karate you have to have fought to teach and get a certain belt level

that method can be adopted in other martial arts to weed out the "mc'dojo" schools

[HumbleWCGuy]

My judo buddy makes his students go to a tournament before each rank. I don't know if that is a judo association requirement or not.

[HumbleWCGuy]

i think in kk karate you have to have fought to teach and get a certain belt level

that method can be adopted in other martial arts to weed out the "mc'dojo" schools

That's exactly it. People who want to make money try to grow their organization by certifying people for things that are irrelevant to fighting.

Edit: to be honest, 8 week of training for a smoker isn't a lot to ask if a person has already been training and learning for 6 or more years.

[Frost]

That's a good question. My whole thing is this. If a person does not compete (and make a decent showing) in something full-contact, they cannot become an instructor. If they want to do some points, forms, this that and the other, that's all fine for the lower ranks, but you just can't promote people who can't do that. It's the lack of this simple requirement that is the source of endless debate on this forum. If people want to LARP, theorize, and study culture, GREAT! But, my position has been and always will be that WC is a fighting art.

Think about this... If fighting at least one smoker and making a decent showing were a requirement, how many WCers, masters and grandmasters included, would be certified?

lol now you have done it all the "we fight on the street not the ring" guys will be after you and not dale or terrance

you raise a good point, my view is a bit different maybe you can become a good teacher and trainer of fighters without having fought that much (i said maybe!) but unless youare turning out fighters, boxers or grapplers you really should not be talking about what does and does not work in those enviroments and what will or will not be the next big thing in those sports

[Frost]

What is the standard in Judo for becoming an instructor level? How about BJJ?

I think a standard like that would be great, in fact I think a similar standard to what Judo does would also be great for all promotions. But how do you get any standards going?

I suppose one school could adopt this kind of standard and then it might proliferate...and become a new standard..

Anyone can teach BJJ and I think judo as well, but guys will not choose to train at a gym that does not compete or does not belong to a recognised body.... or if it does compete they always ends up losing.

You first need a competition format people can enter before you standardize anything, when schools compete in any event it’s easy to see why are the good coaches and who are the bad ones...without such a competition it’s too easy for bad instructors to set up shop

[Frost]

My judo buddy makes his students go to a tournament before each rank. I don't know if that is a judo association requirement or not.

two ways to get promoted in judo I believe, you have to either have a certain number of tournaments under your belt, or have been in the art for a certain amount of time, but the first way is the usual way people get promoted, and as I said since judo has a nationally recognised format for competing it’s easy for people to see who are the good coaches

[HumbleWCGuy]

lol now you have done it all the "we fight on the street not the ring" guys will be after you and not dale or terrance

LOL...

you raise a good point, my view is a bit different maybe you can become a good teacher and trainer of fighters without having fought that much (i said maybe!) but unless youare turning out fighters, boxers or grapplers you really should not be talking about what does and does not work in those enviroments and what will or will not be the next big thing in those sports

I am open to that rare possibility that someone could not fight at all and be a great trainer. I also understand that someone who is a great trainer might have been limited to low-level events due to a myriad of reasons, injury, athleticism, and chin to name a few.

[YungChun]

but unless youare turning out fighters, boxers or grapplers you really should not be talking about what does and does not work in those enviroments and what will or will not be the next big thing in those sports

It's a discussion forum.. If folks want to discuss the merits of eating cupcakes before a match because they think it's a good idea, they have the right to say so..

Any idea or discussion can be valid, or not.. But you can't restrict discussion on a discussion board..and if folk want to speculate about the future of the sport they certainly can do that too without having to prove any particular supernatural abilities.....

[Knifefighter]

It's a discussion forum.. If folks want to discuss the merits of eating cupcakes before a match because they think it's a good idea, they have the right to say so..

Any idea or discussion can be valid, or not.. But you can't restrict discussion on a discussion board..and if folk want to speculate about the future of the sport they certainly can do that too without having to prove any particular supernatural abilities.....

Of course you can't tell someone not to state his opinions... you can, however, tell them how ludicrous those opinions are.

[Ultimatewingchun]

I had six advanced students who were still in attendance before I moved to Brooklyn in December, 2001.

Two of them were by that point in time long distance students, ie.- both had already moved from NYC to Connecticut and were only coming on an inconsistent basis.

One of them moved to Japan 5 years ago and only attends when in NYC for a visit.

Of the remaining three, one of them moved to New Jersey in 2002 with his wife (no children yet)....and is now the proud and extremely busy father of five.
P.S. - he's attended exactly two classes since June, 2002.

That leaves two guys. One of them lives in Manhattan and was coming to Brooklyn for awhile, but after the birth of his second child has been very sporadic in his attendance and also runs his own business....but is also willing to come back to class fairly regularly once I move the school back to Manhattan.

And the last guy lives in Staten Island and works in New Jersey...has attended a fair amount of classes in Brooklyn in total over the last 8.5 years - but on a very inconsistent basis, ie.- he attended class only about 6-7 times in all of 2009.

However his New Jersey workplace can easily access the area of Manhattan that I plan to go to - and he also has said that he'll attend regularly once I return.

....................................

And then there was one guy living in Brooklyn who came to my Brooklyn school for about one year - and then left to go to an mma place in Manhattan - precisely because I didn't have enough guys in the Brooklyn school for him to roll with...

although he's sold on mma - he prefers to wrestle/grapple....and has competed in a few smokers since leaving my school: first grappling only, and then one or two all out mma.

I suspect he might come back to train with me once I move back to Manhattan - since instead of 6-7 guys I anticipate carrying about 12-14 students.

And again, all of this changes nothing about what it is I've been doing; and I believe the road being travelled is a good one, and will be populated by other wing chun people as well as time goes on...as well as those already on a similar road even before I got there (ie.- Rick Spain).

[Frost]

I had six advanced students who were still in attendance before I moved to Brooklyn in December, 2001.

Two of them were by that point in time long distance students, ie.- both had already moved from NYC to Connecticut and were only coming on an inconsistent basis.

One of them moved to Japan 5 years ago and only attends when in NYC for a visit.

Of the remaining three, one of them moved to New Jersey in 2002 with his wife (no children yet)....and is now the proud and extremely busy father of five.
P.S. - he's attended exactly two classes since June, 2002.

That leaves two guys. One of them lives in Manhattan and was coming to Brooklyn for awhile, but after the birth of his second child has been very sporadic in his attendance and also runs his own business....but is also willing to come back to class fairly regularly once I move the school back to Manhattan.

And the last guy lives in Staten Island and works in New Jersey...has attended a fair amount of classes in Brooklyn in total over the last 8.5 years - but on a very inconsistent basis, ie.- he attended class only about 6-7 times in all of 2009.

However his New Jersey workplace can easily access the area of Manhattan that I plan to go to - and he also has said that he'll attend regularly once I return.

....................................

And then there was one guy living in Brooklyn who came to my Brooklyn school for about one year - and then left to go to an mma place in Manhattan - precisely because I didn't have enough guys in the Brooklyn school for him to roll with...

although he's sold on mma - he prefers to wrestle/grapple....and has competed in a few smokers since leaving my school: first grappling only, and then one or two all out mma.

I suspect he might come back to train with me once I move back to Manhattan - since instead of 6-7 guys I anticipate carrying about 12-14 students.

And again, all of this changes nothing about what it is I've been doing; and I believe the road being travelled is a good one, and will be populated by other wing chun people as well as time goes on...as well as those already on a similar road even before I got there (ie.- Rick Spain).

im sorry but i know schools which have only 8 or 10 students that still compete in MMA and kickboxing.... they turn out students that compete in the first year.

You don't have to compete but perhaps you should hold off telling people what works or what direction MMA will go in until you you or your guys do

[Ultimatewingchun]

Well gee, Frost...I'm so sorry that you're sorry.

And no, you won't be telling me what I should say or not say about what works.

[Frost]

Well gee, Frost...I'm so sorry that you're sorry.

And no, you won't be telling me what I should say or not say about what works.

don't worry ill get over it

[Knifefighter]

Well gee, Frost...I'm so sorry that you're sorry.

And no, you won't be telling me what I should say or not say about what works.

Here's a question for you. Why would people want to add parts of a style that, at the very least, is maybe the equivalent of styles they can already easily learn and apply? Since there is no evidence to suggest that WC offers no additional benefits over methods that are already being used, why would people start to use it in the future?

[Frost]

can i ask a question too.....how do you know wing chun as you see it would work in this enviroment when neither you nor any of your students have tried it?