Sooo...perhaps boxing and wing chun aren't so different after all?

[Ultimatewingchun]

Haha! I just checked out your signature link! Talk about confused...

***Again, welcome back to the forum, Van...See what you missed?!

[YungChun]

I agree. Not sure why this would be considered rare - punching with the whole body should be WC punching mechanics 101. Ok, maybe 201.

101 would teach how to set up the triangles for the arm position, 201 would teach how to connect it to the rest of the body. This is something pretty much taught at the beginner level where I train..

Well, when Wing Chun becomes known for "power punching" vs the "Crazy Eggbeaters" then perhaps it will not be considered rare....

There are precious few folks seen on the net properly using body linking connection into each strike..essentially powering each strike from the legs/body all synced...

Running at someone and chain punching isn't really it...

This is another one of those "everyone knows that" yet we hardly ever see it, thingies..

[Phil Redmond]

Notice how that strike is differentiated from a hook. It is a casting strike and another example of a spherical punch.

Just like a Choy Lei Fut or Chen Tai Chi strike.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'd like to think it's not THAT rare. All the guys I train wih have proper transfer from the ground. It's most of the YouTube clips of individuals who feel that have to "show" their skills that generally have the least amount of it. Especially since the motivation for such videos is typically for self image affirmation.

In training "EVERYONE" has that, in fighting it tends to disappear.
Why?
Training is training and fighting is fighting, one is the path and they other the goal.
Fact is, all the rooting and transfer done in a static environment goes out the window when someone decides to put their fist through your face.

[SAAMAG]

In training "EVERYONE" has that, in fighting it tends to disappear.
Why?
Training is training and fighting is fighting, one is the path and they other the goal.
Fact is, all the rooting and transfer done in a static environment goes out the window when someone decides to put their fist through your face.

Training includes all the forms of sparring. We all hit quite hard and tend to have to take a couple of headache pills when were done with our sparring.

Thus, the guys I train with all have decent rooting/ground linking in application.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Training includes all the forms of sparring. We all hit quite hard and tend to have to take a couple of headache pills when were done with our sparring.

Thus, the guys I train with all have decent rooting/ground linking in application.

sounds like you are doing something right and that you need to work on your defense, lol

[chusauli]

Training includes all the forms of sparring. We all hit quite hard and tend to have to take a couple of headache pills when were done with our sparring.

Thus, the guys I train with all have decent rooting/ground linking in application.

I would suggest you not to take Aspirin...

[SAAMAG]

sounds like you are doing something right and that you need to work on your defense, lol

Always! Just that you know as well as I do...we all will take the occasional shot (or two or more).

I would suggest you not to take Aspirin...

And thanks Robert, I had heard a long time ago that taking an aspirin after a fight can lead to a higher chance of bleeding in the brain.

I use acetametaphin normally (when necessary).

[t_niehoff]

I agree. Not sure why this would be considered rare - punching with the whole body should be WC punching mechanics 101. Ok, maybe 201.

Punching with your body is just a part of it; there are various ways of using your body, and how WCK uses it isn't how another art uses it.

101 would teach how to set up the triangles for the arm position, 201 would teach how to connect it to the rest of the body. This is something pretty much taught at the beginner level where I train..

Using imaginary things, like triangles that don't really exist, is a silly way to teach. Simply show someone how to do it and then let them practice doing it. That's how people learn new skills.

__________________
What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90

I visited your tag-page. I like how you begin with "this is not a reply directed toward T, so he doesn't need to apply" but only go on to cite -- out of context -- various statements I made about chi sao.

Since you don't seem to understand what I was saying, let me put it all together for you:

Chi sao is WCK's signature exercise/drill.

It is unrealistic, in that you don't perform the exercise/drill under (realistic) fighting conditions. So, regardless of what you think it does, it can't develop realistic fighting skills. You can use it to learn and practice various WCK actions. But it won't develop fighting skills. Only fighting develops fighting skills.

Almost all these actions involve staying attached to your opponent (staying in contact, or sticking). Sticking and the actions (tan, bong, fook, etc.) associated with it are not striking actions but grappling actions, actions that use sustained contact to manipulate your opponent.

Chi sao is not some "form of grappling" or some "form of stand up grappling" -- it is grappling (you are grappling), or, to be more precise, grappling with striking thrown in. An exercise or drill, however, is not and can't be "a form of grappling." Similarly, pummeling is a drill/exercise from greco, it too is not a form of grappling or a form of stand up grappling, although it is grappling.

WCK's fighting method is to control while striking an opponent. We practice doing this in an unrealistic environment in chi sao. So while we can learn and practice doing that in chi sao, we can't develop those actions/things into fighting skills except through fighting (being able to do them in chi sao doesn't mean you can do them in fighting).

Now, go back and read my statements in light of this context and you'll see what I said was consistent with this context.

[JPinAZ]

Punching with your body is just a part of it; there are various ways of using your body, and how WCK uses it isn't how another art uses it.

Wow, mind blowing.

Using imaginary things, like triangles that don't really exist, is a silly way to teach. Simply show someone how to do it and then let them practice doing it. That's how people learn new skills.

Glad to get the inside scoup on all things silly from the WC expert such as yourself.

Are just the ideas of imaginary things, such as trianlges, the only thing silly, or are the others? Would talking about and writing articles about imaginary things, such as the 5 phases of combat, be silly too? Your sifu, and apparently recently-titled "GM", doesn't seem to think these imaginary ideas were so silly when he copied the ideas and pawned them off as his own in an article.
Hey wait, wasn't it you that thought the self-appointed titles of "GM" were silly too...

I visited your tag-page. I like how you begin with "this is not a reply directed toward T, so he doesn't need to apply" but only go on to cite -- out of context -- various statements I made about chi sao.

Since you don't seem to understand what I was saying, let me put it all together for you:

Chi sao is WCK's signature exercise/drill.

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

Now, go back and read my statements in light of this context and you'll see what I said was consistent with this context.

Yeah, you tried this cover up in that thread too. But I only quoted your words as they were. Reread the whole thread, and you'll see what an idiot you sound like right now.

Fact is, you don't really know what chi sau is all about anyway, so you'll never get it.

[Ultimatewingchun]

"Are just the ideas of imaginary things, such as triangles, the only thing silly, or are there others? Would talking about and writing articles about imaginary things, such as the 5 phases of combat, be silly too? Your sifu, and apparently recently-titled 'GM', doesn't seem to think these imaginary ideas were so silly when he copied the ideas and pawned them off as his own in an article.
Hey wait, wasn't it you that thought the self-appointed titles of 'GM' were silly too..." (JP)

***Humm...Very interesting, JP.

.........................................


"Yeah, you tried this cover up in that thread too. But I only quoted your words as they were. Reread the whole thread, and you'll see what an idiot you sound like right now.

Fact is, you don't really know what chi sau is all about anyway, so you'll never get it." (JP)


***SAME OL' bull5hit with this guy.

[Niersun]

Chi sao is WCK's signature exercise/drill.

It is unrealistic, in that you don't perform the exercise/drill under (realistic) fighting conditions. So, regardless of what you think it does, it can't develop realistic fighting skills. You can use it to learn and practice various WCK actions. But it won't develop fighting skills. Only fighting develops fighting skills.

Almost all these actions involve staying attached to your opponent (staying in contact, or sticking). Sticking and the actions (tan, bong, fook, etc.) associated with it are not striking actions but grappling actions, actions that use sustained contact to manipulate your opponent.

Chi sao is not some "form of grappling" or some "form of stand up grappling" -- it is grappling (you are grappling), or, to be more precise, grappling with striking thrown in.

WCK's fighting method is to control while striking an opponent. We practice doing this in an unrealistic environment in chi sao. So while we can learn and practice doing that in chi sao, we can't develop those actions/things into fighting skills except through fighting (being able to do them in chi sao doesn't mean you can do them in fighting).

Now, go back and read my statements in light of this context and you'll see what I said was consistent with this context.

Man how long have you been studying WC for, because i am calling you out as a phony if you say you have studied for more than 1 month of WC.

Chi Sao is not grappling nor is it fighting simulation. Who ever agrees with this needs to go back and listen to there sifu better or get a new one.

Chi Sao develops contact relexes, eye coordination, footwork and most importantly chi. Which school teaches that Chi sao is grappling??? If your holding onto the arm, then your not doing Chi sao exercises properly.

Chi Sao = when i feel him do this, i will do this (sometimes when i see this, must do this), whether it be full step back, bil sao, jut sao, lop sao and pull down if he goes to kick, etc. Chi is supposed to be developed by the forward force you and your partner generate when going through the basic motion of two arm chi sao.

Chi sao described as grappling??? If you are referring to lop sao on someones arm and punching them in the head and not letting go, well thats what newbies do, because they think its fighting. Once you have put overwhelming pressure on your opponent, you should stop and start the two arm drill again.

[t_niehoff]

Wow, mind blowing.

No, just basic. And something you didn't mention.

Glad to get the inside scoup on all things silly from the WC expert such as yourself.

You don't need to be an expert on anything to know that referencing invisible triangles that don't exist is silly.

Are just the ideas of imaginary things, such as trianlges, the only thing silly, or are the others?

Why does anyone need to refer to imaginary lines, triangles, etc. in the first place?

Would talking about and writing articles about imaginary things, such as the 5 phases of combat, be silly too? Your sifu, and apparently recently-titled "GM", doesn't seem to think these imaginary ideas were so silly when he copied the ideas and pawned them off as his own in an article.
Hey wait, wasn't it you that thought the self-appointed titles of "GM" were silly too...

Bringing up this old fish story again? Let's see -- you weren't there, don't know what you're talking about, etc. So this is how you rebut my POV? Brilliant.

And, yes, self-appointed titles are silly.

Yeah, you tried this cover up in that thread too. But I only quoted your words as they were. Reread the whole thread, and you'll see what an idiot you sound like right now.

Fact is, you don't really know what chi sau is all about anyway, so you'll never get it.

I just explained the context (which you left out in your attempt to ridicule) so why don't you point out how anything I wrote is inconsistent with this view? Oh, you can't. I see.

I'm sorry that you either aren't bright enough, don't have sufficient reading comprehension abilities, and/or just didn't bother to read what I wrote about chi sao to understand what I am saying. But I'm not surprised.

[t_niehoff]

Man how long have you been studying WC for, because i am calling you out as a phony if you say you have studied for more than 1 month of WC.

OK, here we go --

Chi Sao is not grappling nor is it fighting simulation. Who ever agrees with this needs to go back and listen to there sifu better or get a new one.

Where did I say it was a fighting simulation? I'm calling you out as someone who can't read.

Chi Sao develops contact relexes, eye coordination, footwork and most importantly chi. Which school teaches that Chi sao is grappling??? If your holding onto the arm, then your not doing Chi sao exercises properly.

Ah, yes, the same old nonsense, contact reflexes, eye coordination, footwork -- and chi! LOL! You think you are developing an imaginary power! Good luck with that.

BTW, grappling doesn't just involve grasping -- although "lop", grabbing, is the extension of the open hand, or haven't you learned that yet? -- it can involve pushing, pressing, pulling, etc., anything that uses sustained contact to manipulate an opponent.

Chi Sao = when i feel him do this, i will do this (sometimes when i see this, must do this), whether it be full step back, bil sao, jut sao, lop sao and pull down if he goes to kick, etc. Chi is supposed to be developed by the forward force you and your partner generate when going through the basic motion of two arm chi sao.

Chi sao described as grappling??? If you are referring to lop sao on someones arm and punching them in the head and not letting go, well thats what newbies do, because they think its fighting. Once you have put overwhelming pressure on your opponent, you should stop and start the two arm drill again.

Go find yourself a good WCK instructor; whoever is teaching you is misleading you.

[goju]

if you were so passionate about wing chun and you are worried its dying why didnt you ever train hard enough to go beyond the "not very good" stage?

still havent answered my question t