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Thread: How hopeless is it?

  1. #1
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    How hopeless is it?

    Well it's pretty hopeless.

    For instance, this is not hopeful, but it is a definite change in your perception of reality as of finishing reading it.

    What exactly is it that you think you are fighting for or that your servicemen and women are fighting for?

    http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=58879
    VA Strives to Prevent Veteran Suicides

    By Donna Miles
    American Forces Press Service

    WASHINGTON, April 23, 2010 – With more than 6,000 veterans committing suicide every year –- and 98 veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan taking their own lives during fiscal 2009 alone -- the Department of Veterans Affairs is redoubling its outreach to veterans and promoting its toll-free suicide-prevention hotline.

    National statistics show that veterans constitute about 20 percent of the 30,000 to 32,000 U.S. deaths each year from suicide. Of an average of 18 veterans who commit suicide each day, about five receive care through the VA health-care system. More than 60 percent of those five had diagnosed mental-health conditions.

    Dr. Janet E. Kemp, VA’s national suicide prevention coordinator, is committed to improving those statistics. She’s heading up an aggressive outreach program to address problems that lead to suicide, and to ensure veterans as well as their loved ones know where to turn for help.

    Speaking with reporters yesterday, Kemp cited mounting evidence that veterans in the 18- to 29-year-old age group who use VA health-care services are less likely to commit suicide than those who don’t.

    Based on statistical comparisons between the two groups, she estimated that 250 fewer veterans enrolled in the VA system take their own lives each year. She credited VA’s screening and assessment processes designed to identify high-risk patients and provide intervention, as needed.

    Yet, during fiscal 2009, 707 members of the general veteran population died at their own hands, and another 10,665 made unsuccessful suicide attempts. In addition to the 98 veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan who committed suicide – 94 men and four women – there were 1,868 who made non-fatal attempts on their lives. Of these, 1,621 were men and 247 were women, reflecting trends in the general U.S. population.

    “Just one death is one too many,” said Dr. Antonette Zeiss, deputy chief for mental health services at VA’s central office. “The bottom line is, the efforts we put into enhancing overall mental health services have correlated with the reduction of suicide,” especially among males who served in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Alarmed by an increase in suicides among this population between 2003 and 2004, VA adopted a comprehensive mental health strategic plan in 2004 that has helped to bring the numbers down.

    Much of the plan is dedicated to increasing veterans’ access to mental-health services. VA hired 6,000 additional mental-health professionals since 2004, bringing its full complement of providers to 20,000, Zeiss said.

    “Access to care makes a difference,” she said. “We have worked on improving access to care for all veterans.”

    VA mental health professionals are based at every VA medical center and the largest community-based clinic, and provide same- or next-day help to veterans in need, she said.

    In addition, VA established a toll-free national suicide hotline in July 2007 that Kemp said receives about 10,000 calls a month from veterans as well as currently serving soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines. Callers dial 1-800-273-TALK (8255), and then select option “1” to talk directly with a VA professional trained to deal with an immediate crisis.

    Kemp credited the hotline with stopping 7,000 suicides in progress, in which callers were actively hurting themselves or in imminent danger of taking their own lives.

    In addition, VA initiated an online chat service last July, accessible through its suicide prevention Web site. The chat line enables veterans and their families and friends to go online to chat anonymously with a trained VA counselor. To date, almost 4,000 “chatters” have used the service, with several referred to the hotline for immediate care, Kemp reported.

    To get the word out about these initiatives, VA launched an advertising campaign in 124 U.S. cities, with public service announcements featuring actor Gary Sinise and TV broadcaster Deborah Norville.

    Kemp said she’s received anecdotal evidence that the campaign already is having an impact. She cited one veteran who traveled to Las Vegas with the intent to commit suicide, writing a suicide note and making final preparations to take his life. Then, by chance, he noticed a poster about the VA suicide prevention hotline on a wall at a local bus stop and placed the call that ultimately saved his life.

    “He’s now alive and well and telling his story of success,” Kemp said.
    hope? change? I hope things change and the war is ended.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  2. #2
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    In this realm, war will always be a reality. That is why many people are here. It is simply the other side of the coin... same path different direction.

    Now the suicide. If I were to place myself in that position, suicide is the result of no other options left. This is the problem of the military. But that is not their path. There should be some other U.S. government department that will accept the soldiers description of his/her problems.

    Does any one remember Gulf War Syndrome and how it was handled by the military medical groups? That was appalling.

  3. #3
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    when you wage war for profit, this is an end result. Not a symptom.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    when you wage war for profit, this is an end result. Not a symptom.
    All wars are waged for some kind of profit. What's yours?

  5. #5
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    Yeah... we're really raking in the $$ over there in Afghanistan.
    The weakest of all weak things is a virtue that has not been tested in the fire.
    ~ Mark Twain

    Everyone has a plan until they’ve been hit.
    ~ Joe Lewis

    A warrior may choose pacifism; others are condemned to it.
    ~ Author unknown

    "You don't feel lonely.Because you have a lively monkey"

    "Ninja can HURT the Spartan, but the Spartan can KILL the Ninja"

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    when you wage war for profit, this is an end result. Not a symptom.
    That post really is uncalled for. We are discussing the the problems our soldiers have. I would hope we can agree that we must do everything possible to take of those brave men and women and leave politics out of the discussion.
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

  7. #7
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    Funny thing is... a large number of the suicides have been soldiers who haven't even deployed.
    The weakest of all weak things is a virtue that has not been tested in the fire.
    ~ Mark Twain

    Everyone has a plan until they’ve been hit.
    ~ Joe Lewis

    A warrior may choose pacifism; others are condemned to it.
    ~ Author unknown

    "You don't feel lonely.Because you have a lively monkey"

    "Ninja can HURT the Spartan, but the Spartan can KILL the Ninja"

  8. #8
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    That article didn't even bother to go one little bit into WHY all these veteran suicides are occurring. You got issues with PTSD, you have families being broken up because one spouse cannot wait for the other to return from duty or spousal infidelity, financial issues (somewhere around 1/3rd of documented US homeless are veterans), lack of career stability after military (for example, I was a medic. I can't get a job in a hospital in this state because they don't have any records of my training. When competing against someone with a state medical assistant certification for a job, I'm out of luck). The list goes on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    That post really is uncalled for. We are discussing the the problems our soldiers have. I would hope we can agree that we must do everything possible to take of those brave men and women and leave politics out of the discussion.
    The situation is political. To avoid approaching the problem as a holistic and systemic one is an error.

    You can't leave out realities because it makes you feel uncomfortable.
    You can't say the war is not about profit, it is. It's about huge budgets that fund the military industrial complexes which include thousands of businesses and thousands of jobs that are dependent on a war happening.

    No war, no jobs for so many, particularly in America.
    If jobs are a political topic, then so to is the war and if you don't think war is for profit, then I suggest you take a few quick civics courses.

    Gimme a break with the sentimental patriotic crap and denial in other words.

    In about a month, your country, mine and the others from the G7 who started this mess will be sitting down with the Taliban in Afghanistan and start a way of folding them into the power structure there.

    After that, who knows? I guess we'll leave soldiers there to protect our interests in the Gas pipeline that will take precious commodities for sale to the west, same as how the oil fields are all guarded and controlled by these foreign forces.

    So, don't be stupid and naive.

    The suicides are a huge problem. You want to fish or cut bait? The more you deflect from these problems that will only grow the further down. What do you think the suicide rate is for Canadians over there? By the way, Canadians have been in the worst areas in combat roles from the beginning and have done some of the most difficult fighting.

    And yet, you don't see these kinds of numbers proportionately. So what is it that is broken here? And how is it that people are so tolerant of this and comfortable looking for someone to blame or shrugging the shoulders and looking for someone else to deal with it.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  10. #10
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    and....



    This is just sad.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    and....



    This is just sad.
    As is this...


    Oh, but we deserved it.



    .

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    The situation is political. To avoid approaching the problem as a holistic and systemic one is an error.

    You can't leave out realities because it makes you feel uncomfortable.
    You can't say the war is not about profit, it is. It's about huge budgets that fund the military industrial complexes which include thousands of businesses and thousands of jobs that are dependent on a war happening.
    But as Drake pointed out, a large number of the suicides are people who have not even been deployed. So stop. If you want to discuss the war in political terms, start a new thread. This one is not about the reasons for the war being fought.
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kfson View Post
    As is this...


    Oh, but we deserved it.



    .
    Uh, what has one got to do with the other? Care to elaborate on what you think is the causality for the war and then by all means justify it for us.

    Otherwise, this is the most remarkably ignorant and uninformed comment you have made so far.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    But as Drake pointed out, a large number of the suicides are people who have not even been deployed. So stop. If you want to discuss the war in political terms, start a new thread. This one is not about the reasons for the war being fought.
    apologetic crap.

    There are huge amounts of suicides. Many of which, a huge amount of which are coming from those people who have been deployed.

    It has to be talked about Holistically and it has to be approached honestly in order to discuss it. You can't leave out the failures of the us military, it's government and it's people when we are discussing the current wars of occupation in which the USA is involved.

    the ignorance is really still high as is glaringly illustrated by kfson and his correlation of 9/11 to the situation in Afghanistan or possibly even Iraq. There are still a lot of Americans who believe that Iraq had something to do with 9/11 and even some who think the country of Afghanistan had something to do with it.

    the truth is quite different though.

    perhaps upon realizing the truth, these soldiers are deciding it is not worth fighting for a country under that pretext and so they decide to suicide themselves?
    Kung Fu is good for you.

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