Soldiers and Suicide

[kfson]

....I've been thinking in response to the closed thread. Soldiers don't want to get psychological help from the military because they (themselves and top brass) think this act makes them look weak. The psychological help will go on their record and any promotion board will see this as a weakness and an inability to lead soldiers under duress. If a soldier is a career officer, this is even more of a risk because an officer has to be promoted or leave the service or become an NCO.

Next, a soldier is trained to deal with a belligerent in one manner, terminating it's physical existence. When some soldiers have a belligerent in his head, they deal with it as such.

[Drake]

Research stuff before you make assertions, thanks.

[kfson]

Research stuff before you make assertions, thanks.

Direct life experience, thank you, good by.

[Drake]

Direct life experience, thank you, good by.

What direct life experience? Would you like me to pick apart your post, or do you simply want to fix the inaccuracies and flat out errors you've made?

[Drake]

....I've been thinking in response to the closed thread. Soldiers don't want to get psychological help from the military because they (themselves and top brass) think this act makes them look weak. The psychological help will go on their record and any promotion board will see this as a weakness and an inability to lead soldiers under duress. If a soldier is a career officer, this is even more of a risk because an officer has to be promoted or leave the service or become an NCO.

Next, a soldier is trained to deal with a belligerent in one manner, terminating it's physical existence. When some soldiers have a belligerent in his head, they deal with it as such.

Forget it... I'll do it myself.

1. If you haven't noticed, you can go to see mental health with NO consequences. It isn't a sign of weakness, and that fact is put out every three months or so during mandatory training.

2. Your mental health does not go in front of your promotion board. That data is protected, confidential information. It's a violation of the HIPPA Act to use it during a board, centralized OR decentralized.

3. Career officer? WTF are you talking about? We do not "become NCOs" if our performance isn't to standard. We simply aren't promoted, which is a stretch, with promotion rates at nearly 90% for first look alone... TO LTC. MAJ is virtually a given these days. The rest resign their commission. They do not become NCOs.


So.... either you are confused or your life experience is in direct conflict with what the Army is.

[David Jamieson]

Forget it... I'll do it myself.

1. If you haven't noticed, you can go to see mental health with NO consequences. It isn't a sign of weakness, and that fact is put out every three months or so during mandatory training.

2. Your mental health does not go in front of your promotion board. That data is protected, confidential information. It's a violation of the HIPPA Act to use it during a board, centralized OR decentralized.

3. Career officer? WTF are you talking about? We do not "become NCOs" if our performance isn't to standard. We simply aren't promoted, which is a stretch, with promotion rates at nearly 90% for first look alone... TO LTC. MAJ is virtually a given these days. The rest resign their commission. They do not become NCOs.


So.... either you are confused or your life experience is in direct conflict with what the Army is.

Just wanna point something out and it's not in defense of anyone, but:

1) A person has to be of the mental fortitude to actually go and ask and yes, people that openly speak of mental issues get ostracized regardless of the law around it. I've seen it happen with other friends who state they have issues and then are dropped and not communicated anymore with by others which causes the issue to widen somewhat. So, there is a consequence.

2)your mental health may not go in front of a promotion board but it is a huge factor in whether or not you are allowed to go get promoted. Wouldn't you say? Yeah that info is protected, from your peers, but not from your commanding officers or from medical personnel and these are all people and they are all capable of communicating it to others are they not?

3) the person who pulled out the pistols and killed those folks in the army barracks was a major and a career officer was he not? Right now up here we have a base commander Lt.Col who is currently on trial for 2 murders, numerous sexual assaults and various break and enters over a period of years. He has been suicidal and exhibits extreme mental wear and tear.

You have a very positive view of the military. IN some respects I can get behind that, but I don't think you are being realistic when it comes to things like mental issues where a much more high school attitude is prevalent in North American society. Your nation and my nation and most nations out there still just don't get it. If anyone gets sidelined, ostracized and cast out from regular society it is people battling mental illness.

[1bad65]

And the expert speaks...

[Drake]

Again... more foolishness.

We have a 4-star general who's been getting treated for PTSD. He started getting the treatment for it when he was a 2-star.

And you don't understand promotions. Not even the first bit of it. Stop talking like you do. It DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE BECAUSE NOBODY SEES OR KNOWS ABOUT IT. Since you clearly know how this works... Until CPT, nobody looks at anything. You are promoted along a timeline. Once you are up for CPT, a centralized board off at HRC looks at your ORB, and, more likely than not, you'll make CPT. MAJ is a sure bet right now as well, along with very high selection rates for LTC and even COL. Again, these people don't know you, and they certainly have NO way of checking your medical records. If they did break the law and did that, then they'd go to jail. We had a company commander almost get in trouble before his superiors managed to shut him down. Didn't matter, because the medical clinic refused his request anyway.

Oh, and you pointed out... what... two instances? Out of tens of thousands of officers? So, you tell me... what's the ratio of bad apples to good ones, then?

Seriously... opinions are fine, but stop making up facts when you have active duty on here ready to call out your BS.

[1bad65]

Seriously... opinions are fine, but stop making up facts when you have active duty on here ready to call out your BS.

"When most people are confronted with facts contrary to their opinions, they at least consider changing their opinions. Ward Churchill simply manufactures more agreeable facts." -Jim Paine

Looks like David went to the Ward Churchill School of Debate.

[David Jamieson]

Again... more foolishness.

We have a 4-star general who's been getting treated for PTSD. He started getting the treatment for it when he was a 2-star.

And you don't understand promotions. Not even the first bit of it. Stop talking like you do. It DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE BECAUSE NOBODY SEES OR KNOWS ABOUT IT. Since you clearly know how this works... Until CPT, nobody looks at anything. You are promoted along a timeline. Once you are up for CPT, a centralized board off at HRC looks at your ORB, and, more likely than not, you'll make CPT. MAJ is a sure bet right now as well, along with very high selection rates for LTC and even COL. Again, these people don't know you, and they certainly have NO way of checking your medical records. If they did break the law and did that, then they'd go to jail. We had a company commander almost get in trouble before his superiors managed to shut him down. Didn't matter, because the medical clinic refused his request anyway.

Oh, and you pointed out... what... two instances? Out of tens of thousands of officers? So, you tell me... what's the ratio of bad apples to good ones, then?

Seriously... opinions are fine, but stop making up facts when you have active duty on here ready to call out your BS.

Dude, what are you talking about. So what you're a grunt. Big effin deal. You don't seem to understand the reality of human nature as much as you understand your friggin rule book.

My statements were in regards to how humans operate in general, not according to what your rule book for coduct states.

If you can't see how the human factor effects stuff, then you are already lost. Don't bother speaking to the issue again until you clear that group think propaganda noise from your head. lol

gimme a break.

and 1 bad, suck it alright. Quit being a little dog trying to buddy up with anybody who fopr a fraction of a second for whatever reason agrees with you.

your sycophantic ways destroy any argument you had on top of your extremely flawed premises, projections and perceptions.

[1bad65]

Dude, what are you talking about. So what you're a grunt. Big effin deal.

But the "grunt" has military experience, and thus speaks from experience. What's your military experience?

[1bad65]

your sycophantic ways destroy any argument you had on top of your extremely flawed premises, projections and perceptions.

But at least I'm not making up facts, unlike you.

[Drake]

Do you even know what a grunt is? I don't think you do, because I'm not one. Namecalling and condescension when everything else fails, eh?

[Pork Chop]

just went through suicide prevention training the other week on base.
i've now got 2 wingmen that have my back
who woulda thought? a lowly contractor like me?

fyi - this stuff is being openly discussed at all levels and is being addressed.

[SAAMAG]

What the hell are you people dribbling about? Drake is military, and spot on with his facts. I was military as well and can second his words. BTW...an officer is the polar opposite of a grunt.

I don't understand why people continue to debate things they don't know anything about simply to save face of a fuggin internet forum.