Body Structure Functional Application

[Frost]

OK, I am going to show my ignorance but WTF is everyone going on about.

I did WCK but only for a short time. I have also wrestled, boxed, served in the Marine Corps, played football, baseball and now do no-gi BJJ and I have no clue what everyone is going on about.

Is it how you stand, your balance, positioning of body parts, what? Is anything like setting you base in bjj or wrestling? And if so doesn't it change as you or your opponent move?

I am so confused!!!!

Same here I’d like to know as well, for an art that is usually advertised as simple and effective its practitioners can sure complicate the most basic things. Structure is taught in most athletic endeavours in the first class and reinforced and tested through practise....weight lifters learn the correct structure for lifting weights in the first few lessons.....boxers the same, wrestlers the same ....is it reinforced through cues whilst training in the beginning but this doesn’t take long to become second nature.....how can people make something so simple so complicated

[YungChun]

Same here I’d like to know as well, for an art that is usually advertised as simple and effective its practitioners can sure complicate the most basic things. Structure is taught in most athletic endeavours in the first class and reinforced and tested through practise....weight lifters learn the correct structure for lifting weights in the first few lessons.....boxers the same, wrestlers the same ....is it reinforced through cues whilst training in the beginning but this doesn’t take long to become second nature.....how can people make something so simple so complicated

First of all Knifefighter beat you to this post..

Second, since when is any of this kind of BS new to TMA?

[YungChun]

Is it how you stand, your balance, positioning of body parts, what? Is anything like setting you base in bjj or wrestling? And if so doesn't it change as you or your opponent move?

That's true... It's not static, yet you would think otherwise from many of the posts..

The issue stems from the emphasis on the use of leveraged positions and vectored energy issuing, use of position and breaking all of it down in the opponent so you can attack and control.

[Knifefighter]

how can people make something so simple so complicated

Theoretical non-fighters [tm] looking for the magic bullet.

[YungChun]

If it was that simple there would be nothing to discuss...

[Knifefighter]

The issue stems from the emphasis on the use of leveraged positions and vectored energy issuing, use of position and breaking all of it down in the opponent so you can attack and control.

LOL... That would be more theoretical non-fighter [tm] theorizing for pretty much everything you are attempting to accomplish in any fighting style.

[SAAMAG]

Even non-theoretical fighters have tons of theory and technique to talk about. Go have a look at any MMA forum.

By the by, I do agree that the talk of structure or body structure is somewhat odd, because it really isn't that complicated of a subject.

[YungChun]

Even non-theoretical fighters have tons of theory and technique to talk about. Go have a look at any MMA forum.

By the by, I do agree that the talk of structure or body structure is somewhat odd, because it really isn't that complicated of a subject.

So go ahead and lay it all out (VT use of structure in fighting) in a nice paragraph or two...

(anyone?)

[anerlich]

Dude, you gotta trademark that "theoretical non-fighters) thing, its gold, gold I tell you !!!H
HW8 shoudl have trademarked "Authentic TCMA" and he didn't, don't make the same mistake !!

I think Dale would be up against Terence if he tried to trademark that term. If T wasn't the originator, he probably has a strong claim due to frequency of (over)use. And, unlike fighting, lawyering is something T has some experience in.

I saw HW8 as having more claims to "Glorified Kickboxing" and "MMA Knuckleheads", both of which he is welcome to.

[anerlich]

Is it how you stand, your balance, positioning of body parts, what? Is anything like setting you base in bjj or wrestling? And if so doesn't it change as you or your opponent move?

I don't think there's a lot more to it than that IMO. If you're (forgive the cliches) working in an alive fashion against a resisting opponent, you have little option but to pretty quickly learn how to adjust your posture and the way you move to manage that.

If you spent all day doing forms and prearranged stuff, then you might have the luxury of being able to overcomplicate things.

I do not have to had Muay Thai, Boixing, or BJJ delivery base to make it work, making it a pseudo WCK or JKD. I keep WCK pure - it is about making WCK work.

At least some of your students and grandstudents are studying BJJ. I believe from experience that the BJJ delivery base is enormously superior to "doing WCK on the ground" where groundfighting is concerned.

I'm less concerned with making WCK work or keeping it pure than I am with having an effective defense base, whatever its sources.

[YungChun]

I don't think there's a lot more to it than that IMO. If you're (forgive the cliches) working in an alive fashion against a resisting opponent, you have little option but to pretty quickly learn how to adjust your posture and the way you move to manage that.

There has to be guidance...someone who knows how to lead the way..

If you put scrub off the street up against a BJJ black belt..and have them roll, how long will it take the scrub to:

"quickly learn how to adjust your posture and the way you move to manage that"

Without good coaching?

And despite training (rolling) in an alive fashion?

[anerlich]

There has to be guidance...someone who knows how to lead the way..

If you put scrub off the street up against a BJJ black belt..and have them roll, how long will it take the scrub to:

"quickly learn how to adjust your posture and the way you move to manage that"

Without good coaching?

And despite training (rolling) in an alive fashion?

I can't argue with the need for guidance.

However, guidance and static structure tests without rolling will get you nowhere. And if the teacher never rolls, his guidance would be highly questionable.

IMO you learn more about effective structure in an hour of standup wrestling than you would in a year of static structure testing.

You need feedback. And the feedback you get from practice against a live opponent is worth multiple DVD's worth of lectures from a Sifu.

[YungChun]

I can't argue with the need for guidance.

However, guidance and static structure tests without rolling will get you nowhere. And if the teacher never rolls, his guidance would be highly questionable.

IMO you learn more about effective structure in an hour of standup wrestling than you would in a year of static structure testing.

You need feedback. And the feedback you get from practice against a live opponent is worth multiple DVD's worth of lectures from a Sifu.

I was never addressing some kind of static structure.. I don't see anything in VT as static.. The structure must be alive, structure in motion with dynamic adaptive change as the constant..

Oh and who has the lock on the term Fantasy Foo? I like that one...

[anerlich]

I was never addressing some kind of static structure.. I don't see anything in VT as static.. The structure must be alive, structure in motion with dynamic adaptive change as the constant..

I know you weren't saying that.

I guess my point is that the finer points and deep philosophy of structure we go on and on about only have relevance if you're working in a (cliche alert) static fashion with dead patterns.

Most people training in alive systems don't have time for this deep deliberation because they're too busy doing it rather than meditating on it.

[YungChun]

I know you weren't saying that.

I guess my point is that the finer points and deep philosophy of structure we go on and on about only have relevance if you're working in a (cliche alert) static fashion with dead patterns.

Most people training in alive systems don't have time for this deep deliberation because they're too busy doing it rather than meditating on it.

I don't know Andrew... The tendency on any board is to hack apart anything and everything having to do with the subject ad infinitum IME.

Also, IMO it's a valid topic.. If anyone can share any info on VT use of structure that will help out someone's VT then great....