The Biggest Problem with Wing Chun

[Tom Kagan]

Tom,

Which martial art is that?

Judo. Heck, they are probably headed for yet another dust up, considering what's going on within the USJA.

I remember an incident in NYC involving 2 large WCK groups. I don't think it made it that far...

Victor is well aware of the details.

[Ultimatewingchun]

It didn't go to the Supreme Court, Tom...

It went to criminal court in Manhattan, and eventually all charges were dropped since the plaintiff kept on being a no-show after the first court date.

Now listen, I know that a person who's last name is Kagan is being considered for the Supreme Court...

but let's not get carried away, okay?!


.....It seems that Tom has the Supreme Court on his mind...

[chusauli]

Glad in the end, it all worked out.

Better not to have legal problems because of WCK politics.

[Tom Kagan]

It didn't go to the Supreme Court, Tom...

It went to criminal court in Manhattan, and eventually all charges were dropped since the plaintiff kept on being a no-show after the first court date.

Now listen, I know that a person who's last name is Kagan is being considered for the Supreme Court...

but let's not get carried away, okay?!


.....It seems that Tom has the Supreme Court on his mind...

There were two different questions - one answer about big league squabbles, one answer about bush league squabbles.

[taojkd]

[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1015274]

Dogma.

No one is trying to evolve the system.

((Not true)

No one is testing it.

(not true))

Who? Where?

The curriculum is standardized.

(not true. Easy to make bro

ad generalizations such as taojkd's in a forum post))

Yes. There is a belted (sashed) level of progression. SNT techniques, then CK, then BT (which is guarded in some organizations as being too deadly to teach openly i.e. LT's) then the dummy form and lastly the weapons form. There are hook punches in BT which many dont learn until you get to BT there are kicks in Dummy form which you dont get to learn until dummy form etc. Agreed that not ALL teachers are like this but the majority of the schools (especially organizations TWC, WT, WTzun etc) do for the purposes of enrollment

Muay Thai there is no "standardized curriculum". They teach you how to put power in all strikes. Some basic combination's. Then spar. If you can make it work, then its Muay Thai. You find the techniques that work for you through scientific method (research, hypothesize, TEST, Analyze - REPEAT)

Other striking systems are already using some WC techniques into its practice.

Soo

Why bother with the drama if you can find a good gym (mma, boxing, shootfighting, san shou etc) that have already cut through the red tape to learn the techniques that work for you?

[chusauli]

From being on this forum, I think the biggest problem with WCK is people can't see past their own experience and think they are doing the only "right" way.

A lot of this stuff is in people's heads.

And I am not exempt from this.

So human nature is the fault of WCK.

[sanjuro_ronin]

From being on this forum, I think the biggest problem with WCK is people can't see past their own experience and think they are doing the only "right" way.

A lot of this stuff is in people's heads.

And I am not exempt from this.

So human nature is the fault of WCK.

"religious MA zealots", or "atheistic sport fighters" take your pick, LOL !

[Dragonzbane76]

pikachu, I CHOOSE YOU.

[Wayfaring]

Now listen, I know that a person who's last name is Kagan is being considered for the Supreme Court...

but let's not get carried away, okay?!

Now what activity of Kagan's besides his moderating on Bullshido has the potential to accomplish this?

[sanjuro_ronin]

pikachu, I CHOOSE YOU.

You American kids...

[chusauli]

I have got to go to Brazil!

What the heck are they doing?

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have got to go to Brazil!

What the heck are they doing?

Just kids having fun

[Dragonzbane76]

them kids do look like they are having an great time.....can't blame them though.

[Dragonzbane76]

brazil is also notorius for another phenonmenon.

[shawchemical]

I think many, if not most, people teaching WCK are actually doing a huge disservice to their students. They're actually making them worse fighters, not better fighters. Most people in WCK are in my view training to fail.

As I see it, like all TMAs, WCK has two parts -- the curriculum and applying that curriculum (fighting). The way TCMAs, including WCK, is classically taught, the two are divorced. You learn and practice the curriculum, the forms, drills, dummy, etc. But learning the curriculum won't teach you how to effectively use it.

Serious problems arise when people don't appreciate that distinction. And, when they listen to people with little to no real (fighting) skill, whether their sifu or grandmaster, tell them how they should do things. This is the blind leading the blind. And that is training to fail.

My view is that you can't teach application if you aren't already successfully and consistently doing it in quality sparring. Application IS what you are doing in sparring, not "examples" of how you think WCK should work. So, if you are not doing it in fighting, then just teach the curriculum and let your student/trainee go do the work (of learning how to use he curriculum) themselves -- get out of the way of their development.

How woudl you know??

You don't even know what quality is, let alone what people are actually doing.

You're a little too much in love with your own ability to run an argument that you don't seem to be able to see where you fudge lines to make ad hominem attacks, or where you just make blanket generalisations and think that that is enough to convince people.

people like you make me glad that I dropped my law degree when I did.