Martialskill's Lan Jie DVD

[Luk Hop]

.....Although Sifu McFarland does have close ties to Lee Kam Wing and Brendan Lai (RIP), Wes Hardy himself never studied with either of them for more than possibly a few hours at a seminar, and definitely could not be considered a student of theirs.

Of Wes Hardys supposed 18 years of experience, less than 5 of those years are with a legitimate teacher and he was never given permission to teach the system. Wes was in fact put on probation from the school for a lack of etiquette and didn't have the strength of character to come back at the end of the 6 months to continue his training.

What we have here is a beginning/intermediate student (wes), passing on his limited knowledge to Sean, who is now attempting to cash in by creating DVD's and websites.

Sincerely,
Josh Goessling
California Martial Arts Institute (Formerly North Bay Kung Fu and Karate)
www.calmartialarts.com

Well said.

Although I have no knowledge of any of the above mentioned practitioners, this does however sum up a number of the Mantis teachers currently in the field.

A little studying here, a seminar or two over there and then poof!!!! A master is born.

[Three Harmonies]

LH
Don't add fuel to the fire!
JAB

[mooyingmantis]

Well said.

Although I have no knowledge of any of the above mentioned practitioners, this does however sum up a number of the Mantis teachers currently in the field.

A little studying here, a seminar or two over there and then poof!!!! A master is born.

Which apparently is consistent with mantis history.

According to information at The Mantis Cave, Wang Rong Sheng gave the Qi Xing Tang Lang system its name and created the 7* mantis forms after having studied with Li San Jian for only two years. Interesting fact I thought!

Richard

[Fei Yan]

It also states that Wang Rong Sheng was already a master of Chang Quan and Di Tong, having trained both from the age of 8 until he was 23, at which point he opened a school and was the local champion of Fushan. It wasn't until 10 years later that he met Li San Jian, and by that point Wong already had 25 years of experience in the martial arts. In addition to that Li San Jian most likely only had two forms in his system, and 6 at the most.

It could also be inferred that Wang Rong Sheng being born into a wealthy family and running his own martial arts school, had plenty of time to practice his art, and could therefore put more hours into three years than your average modern martial artist puts in over the course of 10.

Wang also continued to refine his system and increase his learning by exchanging knowledge with the Hao family. Even with all that experience, Wang never taught the system openly at his school and only had 3 graduates under him in the praying mantis system.

I think this is a far cry from a modern practitioner who works a full time job, spends 5 hours a week training, and then runs off and becomes a master after 3 years.

[mooyingmantis]

Fei Yan wrote:

It also states that Wang Rong Sheng was already a master of Chang Quan and Di Tong, having trained both from the age of 8 until he was 23, at which point he opened a school and was the local champion of Fushan.

Very commendable!

In addition to that Li San Jian most likely only had two forms in his system, and 6 at the most.

How do you know this? Can you list the forms he definitely taught?

It could also be inferred that Wang Rong Sheng being born into a wealthy family and running his own martial arts school, had plenty of time to practice his art, and could therefore put more hours into three years than your average modern martial artist puts in over the course of 10.

It could also be inferred that having been born into a wealthy family, he was expected to work long and hard in the family business. Perhaps his spare time, which may have been little, was spent teaching martial arts part-time. This may have actually given him very little time for personal training.

Wang also continued to refine his system and increase his learning by exchanging knowledge with the Hao family.

Hao family seminars? LOL, just kidding!

Even with all that experience, Wang never taught the system openly at his school and only had 3 graduates under him in the praying mantis system.

Slacker!!! It is a good thing his students were more ambitious!

I think this is a far cry from a modern practitioner who works a full time job, spends 5 hours a week training, and then runs off and becomes a master after 3 years.

Wow, you know some lazy practitioners! I personally have worked a full-time job, worked part-time for fourteen years in the ministry and trained 3-5 hours a day throughout my 20s, 30s and 40s. I must admit that now that I am in my 50s I have slowed down and alas, I am still no master. But I still train more than 5 hours per week.

I wrote my responses above as a tongue in cheek way of saying to all here, and hopefully without offending anyone, that:

1. "Facts" can be interpreted different ways.
2. Unless you have lived with someone, you really have no idea how they have personally trained, or have any concept of the time and effort they have put into their training.
3. Assumptions and inferences are rarely accurate.
4. Everyone learns and grows differently. Some martial practices took me years to learn proficiently, while I was able to grasp other things almost immediately.
5. In judging others, we often reveal more about ourselves than the ones we seek to expose.

Richard

[Paul T England]

excuse me for seeming a bit dumb but who is Wang Rong Sheng and how does he fit in with 7 * mantis history.

Paul

[CFT]

Paul,

Wang Rong Sheng would be Wong Wing Sang in Cantonese. He's 4 generations before LKW sifu.

[Fei Yan]

In addition to that Li San Jian most likely only had two forms in his system, and 6 at the most.

How do you know this? Can you list the forms he definitely taught?

Per the mantis cave:

shifu Li San Jian originally taught only 2 forms:
1. "Crushing Step" (Bengbu) also called "Crushing Step from Yantai City" (Yantai Bengbu)
2. "Obstacle" (Lanjie)
According to other sources sometimes 4 more forms are added to this list:
"Eighteen Basic Elements" (Shiba Su)
"Avoiding Hardness" (Duo/Zuo Gang)
"Efficacious Softness" (Rou Ling)
"Catching Cicada" (Buchan).

[Paul T England]

Ok so;

Wong Wing Sang probably trained his ass off and i would expect training several hours per day. Any advanced student with practical experience who trained that much would be **** hot!!!!

There is so much crap in kung fu world instead of testing and showing real skills we talk about a teacher who we have no connection with, 3+ generations ago!!!!

back to manits skills dvds....can someone review them?

Paul

[mooyingmantis]

Fei Yan,

Thanks for the info! Haven't looked there lately, so I forgot the info was there.

All,
Review incoming!

Richard

[mooyingmantis]

Friends,

I recently ordered the Lanjie DVDs from Martialskill.com as I mentioned in the first post. I ordered them on May 14th., the order was sent out on May 24th and I received the DVDs on May 26th.. Sifu Daily apologized for the delay in shipping and kindly offered me a reduced price on my next order. Good customer service!

Production & Video Quality

In the middle 1980s I hired a video company to help me produce a videotape on the Fu Hok Sheung Ying Kuen form of Hung Gar Kung Fu. It sold very well in the U.S..
So, I have some experience in this field and the nightmare it can be to take on a project like this.

Martialskill's end product is very professional. From the DVD packaging to the content breakdown, everything far exceeds the DVDs I have purchased from other Mantis practitioners in the U.S., Taiwan, Hong Kong and Canada. Kevin Brazier is the only one I have found who puts out a similar quality video (Shaolin Eight Step Continuous Fist).

The video, sound, scene transitions, etc. are all professional quality.

Form Demonstration, Breakdown & Applications

First, I compared the demonstration of the Lanjie form to videos of other Qixing Tanglang practitioners found demonstrating this same form on YouTube and other video sites. Sifu Daily's performance is not only the best I have seen to date, but his "flair" in execution was quite inspiring.

Sifus Daily, Lopez and Brown each did an excellent demonstration of the traditional form. Sean Daily, the primary performer in the video, had a firm grasp of: cadence, speed and qixing tanglangquan's subtle power generation methods.

The form was broken down into five rows. Each row was taught step by step in a clear, precise manner. Footwork and power generation through the waist were constantly emphasized. The traditional names for the attacks were included in the instruction.
Each movement in the form was then demonstrated with a partner to show the common application used for self-defense.
One could choose to watch the step by step instruction of the movements, or watch a movement by movement application of the techniques separately.
Sifu Daily is an interesting speaker who was able to hold my attention. He explains complex comcepts in a simple way that I believe even a beginner could understand.

Summary

I would recommend this DVD set to any tanglangquan practitioner. Especially to qixing tanglangquan practitioners. If you like the beautiful aesthetics found in forms, its in there. If you like the practical applications found in forms, its in there. If you want a solid and clear explanation of tanglangquan theories, its in there.
I believe every penny I spent on these DVDs was a good investment in my own personal learning experience.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I have nothing to gain from endorsing these DVDs. I do not know the teachers involved. I paid full price for the product. And if the DVDs sucked, I certainly would have let you know rather than let you waste your money.
However, I do endorse the DVDs because it is nice to see people who are pulling back the curtain of mystery that some instructors seem to love and sharing information in a clear and precise manner.
Others may sit back on there lineage laurels, but these guys are openly teaching the real deal!

Regards,
Richard A. Tolson

[techmantis]

Ah yes, politics. Politics is what keeps has kept so much of the world of martial arts, kung fu, and especially mantis, divided and isolated. It's what keeps many of us from being able to learn from, and share with each other. Some individuals (Sifu Cottrell comes to mind) have made real, commendable attempts to bridge these gaps through conferences, forums, and the like, but it remains an elusive goal. I have luckily been exempt from much of that experience as my teacher eschewed politics and told all of his students to focus only on studying hard and ignoring all the BS....and letting skills speak for themselves. However, he always told me that the politics would be there... so I am far from surprised to see the post here by Mr. Goessling.

I won't add fuel to the political fire by even dignifying anything that was said with a point-by-point response. Their gripes are with my teacher and they can handle that directly if they wish. I never studied at their school and so any jibes thrown my direction are meaningless to me since they don't know anything about me having never even met me. As far as Wes Hardy: I feel his skills speak for themselves, and he certainly doesn't need me to defend them. I would be lucky to be half the teacher and practitioner that he is, and I strive each day to be just that (I think we all feel like that about our teachers). As a teacher and mantis practitioner he was absolutely amazing and inspiring to learn from, and despite the fact that he and Sifu McFarland had a falling out, and (as evidenced here in this thread) even though his present-day students feel the need to continue to disparage his name, Wes always spoke very highly of Sifu McFarland's skills and talent. I always respected that he was able to take away the good and leave behind the politics and negativity. I will clarify that Wes most certainly continued on his own path after leaving Sifu McFarland's school (which he was at far longer than the number of years claimed here and at a higher level), studied with other instructors, and does indeed have 18+ years of experience in the arts.

Personally, I have no ego about any of this, because for me ego has no place in the practice of martial arts, and doesn't serve. If the community at large does not enjoy or appreciate what we're providing in terms of content, then I'm certain that the market will speak and handle that as it always does. As far as "cashing in"... uh, to be honest, we'll be happy if our sales over the long term pay for our camera and lighting expenses... we're definitely not in this for our financial futures.

Sharing this information is part of our collective paths towards mastery as a team of practitioners, and all of us would love nothing better than for every master out there to provide documentation of their own knowledge for the betterment of the entire community and the long-term preservation of the art. Heck, we'd be the first customer for each of their DVDs. In fact, I'll go far as to back that up, by offering anyone who wishes to also share their own content and instruction via our upcoming online university the opportunity to do so. As I stated before, I feel that we all benefit in that scenario.

I'm not interested in mudslinging and politics, I'm interested in martial arts. If you want to talk about that, great. If not, I'll respectfully ignore you and turn the other cheek....

Respectfully,

Sean Daily

[Luk Hop]

Ah yes, politics. Politics is what keeps has kept so much of the world of martial arts, kung fu, and especially mantis, divided and isolated. It's what keeps many of us from being able to learn from, and share with each other. Some individuals (Sifu Cottrell comes to mind) have made real, commendable attempts to bridge these gaps through conferences, forums, and the like, but it remains an elusive goal......

Funny that you should mention that name.

You may want to dig a little deeper.

Anyways, thanks for the laugh.

[monkeyfoot]

Digs about Steve Cottrell - I have little knowledge about the him, but jesus wasn't this guy the focus of discussion back in like 2004....

Please everyone b|tching just STFU. Seans obviously doing a good thing here! It drives me crazy how everyone is so ready to slate those who are quite clearly passionate about sharing and promoting the art. How the hell is TCMA going to stand strong if everyone has each other up against the ropes. Community counts - lets build bridges and support one another!

I'd like to thank Richard for his genuine reveiw of the DVD. I found it very informative and will now purchase the DVD for myself. I am really looking forward to seeing it. Thank you

And in response to the person who said the DVDs are merely a way to make money - Do you have the guy added to your FB? Have you seen his youtube vids? Yes although they promote his DVDs, he is quite clearly prepared to freely share information. Most DVD trailers give tiny 'snippets' of information; never the full thing. Seans clips however explain theory, demonstrate forms in full, show applications etc. This hardly looks like the work of someone who just wants cash!!!

[Luk Hop]

Digs about Steve Cottrell - I have little knowledge about the him, but jesus wasn't this guy the focus of discussion back in like 2004....

Funny that you should mention those two names.


He has come. Yes, the Mantis Messiah now walketh the earth amongst us. Whoever believeth and only those who do may enter the halls of the MQ. For those who lack faith, thou art shunned, but for those who do believe – ahh, the annals of Mantisology will begin to unfold before thy very eyes. Oh, how we are so unworthy of the omniscient Mantis Messiah! Why does he continue to forsake us by not sharing more with us here on this forum? Oh why....oh why.......oh why?