Body structure time to go to another level

[Hendrik]

Structure is a dynamic thing; not a dead, static, stand there thing.

The surfboard analogy was more like it. You are keeping your balance and your control of the opponent's balance.

Yup. and most still stay at the static posture level.

and your so called structure test if it is perform similar to the Chinese Street performers show those are just mechanics tricks. how the heck is this type of stuffs could be use in dynamic situation?

I wonder if anyone asking themself, why is their so called structure doesnt natually work in real life dynamic situation.


In general, most will kick like Karate or Box like boxing while train their structure in YJYKM and thinking they have the structure but they dont have it.


Why? because their structure doesnt have the signature of Comes accept Goes return....etc.


But obviously most will say " I have it tooo" disregards of knowing what is what.

[Hendrik]

In additional,

Some structure in different style has things such as Bai Jong, and facing....etc.

For me, WCK doenst have those because it is just flow. There is no reset in flow. No Bai Jong is needed, no facing is needed. It just comes accept, goes return.....

For me, only with flow type of structure one could be parr with the following situation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtqQx...eature=related

See, Oyama didnt reset or make a post ...etc. it just flow. . Simple and effective. not artificial posting . no sanchin stance . no all the man made move.... it just flow with the situation.

look at 0.1/0.2 that is just comes accept goes return... in his own expresssion. well, those are the so called open door methods and lin sil dai ta...etc martial art is martial art, in advance level it is just flow and defeat one at the contact instant.


reality is certainly not the following

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ramwk_AkhgA

why? one will never uses such stuffs in the real life.

.43/2.36 is called chasing the hand. and infact most of the clip is chasing hand
IT fills with moves, it emphasis in move or Jiu Shek but it doesnt have the dynamic structure of WCK which has the signature of comes accept, goes return....etc.

[YungChun]

You had me (well mostly) right up until this...

no facing is needed.

While I agree that one may not always be facing, but inside--close range facing in and of itself I have always found to be a KEY VT attribute..

Facing and following facilitates recovery, opens up attacking options and helps maintain the attack timing and superior tactical positioning---a dynamic that I have found translates to motions and actions that even go beyond the VT toolbox..

[Hendrik]

You had me (well mostly) right up until this...



While I agree that one may not always be facing, but inside--close range facing in and of itself I have always found to be a KEY VT attribute..

Facing and following facilitates recovery, opens up attacking options and helps maintain the attack timing and superior tactical positioning---a dynamic that I have found translates to motions and actions that even go beyond the VT toolbox..

You have good reason, however, IMHO that is only good in mind. and real life action is by passing mind.

look at the Oyama clip. what one is facing in real life which one needs to penetrate any "hole" as soon as the hole surface. thus what is not facing? and there is no need for a artifac facing.


and so what is the dynamic structrure which capable to support one to act?

[YungChun]

You have good reason, however, IMHO that is only good in mind. and real life action is by passing mind.

Real life means taking good position...staying with the change...maintaining or trying to maintain a superior position and certainly avoiding inferior position.. Whatever that means in the moment. You can't mentally minimize the import of positioning..

look at the Oyama clip. what one is facing in real life which one needs to penetrate any "hole" as soon as the hole surface. thus what is not facing? and there is no need for a artifac facing.

Not a good example.. However I agree that you may not always need to face or be able to face in the moment..and then you need to be able to project power from any position, etc..

However facing, following, flanking, etc is generally superior to not doing these things, especially in close range connected fighting--failing to adapt and change with change can be hazardous to your health.

[JPinAZ]

Some structure in different style has things such as Bai Jong, and facing....etc.

For me, WCK doenst have those because it is just flow. There is no reset in flow. No Bai Jong is needed, no facing is needed. It just comes accept, goes return.....

haha, of course WCK for you doesn't have these things. Because for one, you don't fight or even spar with your wing chun, you only talk. If you did actually spar, you might understand wck isn't only about 'just flow' - it doesn't work that way. How'd that work for you in your encounter with Chi Sim?
And for you, WCK doesn't have these things because WCK for you is a hodge podge mixture of snake, crane, ermei, and whatever tai chi you've been reading about lately while you're hooked up to your EKG machine.

And it's clear you don't have the first idea what Bai Jong or facing is even about. The first concept we learn in WC is Center Line. How can this even work in relation to your opponent without facing? So I'm guessing you'll be telling us you don't have CL theory in your wing chun either...

[Hendrik]

Thanks for your view, however, I am not interested in wasting time on it.

haha, of course WCK for you doesn't have these things. Because for one, you don't fight or even spar with your wing chun, you only talk. If you did actually spar, you might understand wck isn't only about 'just flow' - it doesn't work that way. How'd that work for you in your encounter with Chi Sim?


And for you, WCK doesn't have these things because WCK for you is a hodge podge mixture of snake, crane, ermei, and whatever tai chi you've been reading about lately while you're hooked up to your EKG machine.

And it's clear you don't have the first idea what Bai Jong or facing is even about. The first concept we learn in WC is Center Line. How can this even work in relation to your opponent without facing? So I'm guessing you'll be telling us you don't have CL theory in your wing chun either...

[Knifefighter]

I wonder if anyone asking themself, why is their so called structure doesnt natually work in real life dynamic situation.

Because you have people trying to learn "structure" by doing unrealistic drills like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwaZxsYkEcU

When, in reality, effective structure looks more like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shtzE6brI08

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k2oXxEOyUQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXVLC...eature=related

[JPinAZ]

Thanks for your view, however, I am not interested in wasting time on it.

Yeah, funny, I talk about sparring and actual fighting with WC, and you aren't interested.
I talk about key WCK concepts and principles and you aren't interested.

Ok then, stay in your fantasy land..

[Hendrik]

Because you have people trying to learn "structure" by doing unrealistic drills like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwaZxsYkEcU

When, in reality, effective structure looks more like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shtzE6brI08

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k2oXxEOyUQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXVLC...eature=related

You are right if your preference style is as above.




On the other hand,
I can refer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3LUOYxI_FA

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RdICGgXcvc


as realistic and effective instead of the wrestling type and called the wrestling style as un realistics....etc. just because I dont understand what it is.


So, let's not get into making one's preference style as the reality or effective and put down others because it is not one's preference style.

[Hendrik]

again, I am not interested in your reasoning at all since you exhibit incapable to think properly and dont know the subject.

Yeah, funny, I talk about sparring and actual fighting with WC, and you aren't interested.
I talk about key WCK concepts and principles and you aren't interested.

Ok then, stay in your fantasy land..

[Knifefighter]

You are right if your preference style is as above.

On the other hand,
I can refer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3LUOYxI_FA

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RdICGgXcvc


as realistic and effective instead of the wrestling type and called the wrestling style as un realistics....etc. just because I dont understand what it is.


So, let's not get into making one's preference style as the reality or effective and put down others because it is not one's preference style.

Those are fine. They are also representational of functional "structures" Notice how different those are compared to the original, non-functional clip.

[duende]

In additional,

Some structure in different style has things such as Bai Jong, and facing....etc.

For me, WCK doenst have those because it is just flow. There is no reset in flow. No Bai Jong is needed, no facing is needed. It just comes accept, goes return.....

Hendricks,

have you been reading my posts again? Or are you bringing up Bai Jong and facing out of some bizarre coincidence.

Ying is the only the first energy. Structural energy.

It is not dead or lifeless. It is not merely a shape.

To think otherwise is low level understanding.

Ying is knowing yourself. As in without knowing yourself, one can not begin to know their opponent. Yes, it's an old saying we've all heard so many times. But one has to directly Face this truth just like all other truths and can not run away from it.

Just like in combat, if you flow all the time without any real guard or breaks to control (or directly face) the energy, then eventually someone is going to pop you like one big water balloon.

All your precious flow will have leaked out everywhere uselessly and you'll find your center has been nailed to the wall.

Just sayin...

Lau is important, but it is not the end all.

[Hendrik]

You too, thanks but no thanks to your view. Keep it for yourself. Thanks.

Hendricks,

have you been reading my posts again? Or are you bringing up Bai Jong and facing out of some bizarre coincidence.

Ying is the only the first energy. Structural energy.

It is not dead or lifeless. It is not merely a shape.

To think otherwise is low level understanding.

Ying is knowing yourself. As in without knowing yourself, one can not begin to know their opponent. Yes, it's an old saying we've all heard so many times. But one has to directly Face this truth just like all other truths and can not run away from it.

Just like in combat, if you flow all the time without any real guard or breaks to control the energy, then eventually someone is going to pop you like one big water balloon.

All your precious flow will have leaked out everywhere uselessly and you'll find your center has been nailed to the wall.

Just sayin...

Lau is important, but it is not the end all.

[duende]

You too, thanks but no thanks to your view. Keep it for yourself. Thanks.

This is a perfect example of what I'm saying.

You are running away from the discussion, just like you always do.

If you faced the reasons why so many people don't agree with you, then you wouldn't have to constantly repost so many redundant threads.

Fwiw... I accept dynamic flow and much of your reasonings behind it. What I don't accept is your incessant need to put down other concepts to promote your own.