Body structure time to go to another level

[canglong]

taai gihk yahn
True enough yet sometimes hendrik needs to be reminded that words actually do have meaning. You can't let him take up and waste too much of your time so you just have to be selective of when to engage him and his antics.

[Hendrik]

You too I love you as you are.

sounds like Hendrick got unceremoniously dumped on his rear by someone (not surprising, given the miserable structure he demonstrated in that video of him doing standing practice - I shudder to think what he must look like when actively engaged w/another person); now, I wonder how exactly is that "speculation"? seems pretty concrete, lol...

Canglong: you have essentially reiterated what myself and several others on here have been stating for some time now: Hendrick engages in baiting, passive-aggressive, mock-humble, ersatz "I accept you all" posturing; it is pointless even to engage him directly, it gets you no where; just sayin'

[Hendrik]

Sifu Robert Chu is a legitimate direct grand student of GM Ip Man.

GM Ip Man has a legitimate lineage of WCK and a pioneer of WCK in this era ; as everyone in the world of WCK knows.

Your accusation as usual is based less.

That again reflect your Moduk.



Just a friendly advise for you.
You wont win by twisting words, making his-story, instead those un Moduk behaviour just drag yourself down deeper in the eyes of true WCner and real MMA figthers.
Be smarter then what you have act.

The only issues here are the facts that neither you nor Robert understand the difference between copying words off of a blackboard and the profound difference of understanding and conveying the meaning and concepts those words represent. The principles of wing chun must be expressed or it is not wing chun plain and simple. Plainly put first you must know yourself. Secondly know your opponent. Be able to express center line and kiu sau concepts used to connect A and B.

Bai Jong expresses point A the opponent is point B and the Kiu sau and center line concept are expressed and used to connects those 2 points. Without this expression there can be no wing chun and hendrik you said your wing chun did not have this so either you don't know the purpose and meaning of bai jong or you don't know wing chun or both.

So we have wing chun's principles, theories and concepts or we have hendrik's pancake theory where you end up flat on your @ss and red faced because you have no concept of bai jong or center line.

[Hendrik]

To serious WCner who like to discuss technical or even MMA fighters here.

Let's focus on the topic and let's discuss really stuffs and learn and grow together.

There is no perfect system but there is always room to grow when things are examine and learn honestly.

Kungfu Fighter, you study lots of WCK. Tell us what do you think on my view.

[kung fu fighter]

Kungfu Fighter, you study lots of WCK. Tell us what do you think on my view.

I think even though your discriptions are mysterious and flowery at times. I do believe you are on to something in regards to the wing chun equivilent to peng jin in tai chi. I just wish you would explain it more in terms of physics, alignment and bio mechanics instead of making it out to be a big mystery! Wing chun should be simple not mysterious.

[TenTigers]

I think what Hendrick is getting at is:
Structure, or perhaps better, alignment™. My teacher uses both terms. It seems that when many people here hear the word, structure, they are thinking of a person being rigid, and unmoving, like a statue. If you think of it in terms of structural skeletal alignment, it might make more sense. The body is moving, but if your elbow is out, it cannot generate good power, and cannot resist force. Align the elbow, connect with the spine,sacrum, root* and you have structure-while moving.

*which doesn't mean standing there, it means that if you straighten your knees, your hips come out of alignment, and on up the chain.

No Bai-Jong, means that if you "strike a pose,"once you stand, and put up your guard, then I know which gate I can enter. I know your blind side. I know your power side.
If you react to your attacker (attack the attack, attack the intent) then you don't have a set pose. Otherwise, you are a step behind.
That does not mean standing there with your hands down, it means moving, flowing, while having a general cover that is fluid.
I start beginners off with a Boxer's guard. Once they are used to throwing punches without dropping their hands, then they can learn the front facing bai-jong, side facing bai-jong, and Hak Fu Jow Bai Jong (low front lead) and flow from one to the other, while maintaining correct elbow position. The mun sao can flow up, down, in, out etc, and the wu-sao can flow-in front, side, more like a hover.
The footwork can move, and the waist and hips can move.

Bear in mind, that I have a limited experience in WCK, and more in Hung Kuen and SPM, but I believe that certain things (not all) are somewhat universal.

[anerlich]

His views should not be dismissed out of hand.

Most people don't dismiss his views out of hand. They give him the benefit of the doubt for a long time, but eventually realise his pseudo-Zen-Master schtick lacks any real core of understanding, and THEN dismiss him.

I predict that you too will soon arrive at a similar conclusion.

[Hendrik]

I think even though your discriptions are mysterious and flowery at times. I do believe you are on to something in regards to the wing chun equivilent to peng jin in tai chi. I just wish you would explain it more in terms of physics, alignment and bio mechanics instead of making it out to be a big mystery! Wing chun should be simple not mysterious.

Great view. Thanks.

For me WCK is simple only if one view from the top. otherwise there are so many details that it needs to get into. and mysterious is only if one doesnt see the picture yet. Similar to a derivative symbol in math. for those who knows d/dt it is second nature simple. For those needs to learn it from basic math take time and lots of effort to reach that point. and one cant expect differentiation is basic math because it is not belong to that group.

if one keep using the grounding and rooting mind set one is not going to like it when one is standing in a thick bouncy wrestling mat and find all the so called rooting and grounding power unstable. So, grounding and rooting as general thought is not the it. but a limited subset which is great if one use it for demo but in dynamic situation where even the "ground" bounce, it doesnt work.


have anyone go to a wrestling mat, stand with the best structure and forward pressure and testing how is that going to sustain the grapper's inrush and take down? can one really root or ground the incoming force or one just hopelessly loosing all the power which one think one has?

[Hendrik]

What you post is true. I totally agree with you.

and WCK has its uniqueness which needs to be reveal within the situation. WCK's or other styles uniqueness surface after the recognize of the NO Baijong..etc. there is the dynamic structure or signature surface instead of before anything move. It cant be just lips service or movie posture looking good stuffs.

and why does one want to keep learning those static baijong, bridge hand....etc which always make one step behind? in the movie they do that for visual effect to looks great. it real life it is a kiss of death.

and that raise another issue which is after the touch when things are dynamic how to generate power. how is that power generation aids one? see different style has different power generation. A grapper rush in to grap one has started the momentum when one is grap. so how is a other stylist response to that momentum? can one ground or root that rush in momentum? can a hip push counter the full body rush in momentum of the grapper? or can the WCner dissolve the CLF's whip arm...etc. All of those are issues. The so called grounding and rooting, for me, are really very general, it might not suit one's style at all. or even worse it might counter one's effort.
For example a CLF using rooting /grounding power swing a punch at the WCner. if the WCner accept it with the same type of rooting/grounding, then the WCner will loose because 1, WCner has smaller physical expansion mechanics. 2, WCner is one step late in acceleration.

All, type of issues, if one doesnt look into these there is no way one could really use the art. This is because what one think could be against the nature or law of physics. I accept every idea one has what I am posting is can those ideas really work or it is just a believe which have never face the reality.

In general, WCner must be able to dissolve the grapper's hug at the first touch. it must not be the end of the story. it must not default to go down to the ground. otherwise what is WCK? Think about it. It no longer making any sense on all the posture training but can even do anything facing a hug.

My late sifu told me a joke that happen in old time china.
He told me when one guy is doing a butterfly palm while starting a fight, will scream out, "Wu Dip Jiong." The other guy who didnt study kung fu heard that will then stop to fight because the other guy has learn Kung fu. so yes, bai jong is great to scare off those who has no kung fu. but if one met a real deal one will get woops for no one care what is wu dip jiong. the real thing surface after the touch. and if one cant even sustain the first touch. Then, there is no kung fu but dance. or the other party has much higher kung fu then one to even response.

I think what Hendrick is getting at is:
Structure, or perhaps better, alignment™. My teacher uses both terms. It seems that when many people here hear the word, structure, they are thinking of a person being rigid, and unmoving, like a statue. If you think of it in terms of structural skeletal alignment, it might make more sense. The body is moving, but if your elbow is out, it cannot generate good power, and cannot resist force. Align the elbow, connect with the spine,sacrum, root* and you have structure-while moving.

*which doesn't mean standing there, it means that if you straighten your knees, your hips come out of alignment, and on up the chain.

No Bai-Jong, means that if you "strike a pose,"once you stand, and put up your guard, then I know which gate I can enter. I know your blind side. I know your power side.
If you react to your attacker (attack the attack, attack the intent) then you don't have a set pose. Otherwise, you are a step behind.
That does not mean standing there with your hands down, it means moving, flowing, while having a general cover that is fluid.
I start beginners off with a Boxer's guard. Once they are used to throwing punches without dropping their hands, then they can learn the front facing bai-jong, side facing bai-jong, and Hak Fu Jow Bai Jong (low front lead) and flow from one to the other, while maintaining correct elbow position. The mun sao can flow up, down, in, out etc, and the wu-sao can flow-in front, side, more like a hover.
The footwork can move, and the waist and hips can move.

Bear in mind, that I have a limited experience in WCK, and more in Hung Kuen and SPM, but I believe that certain things (not all) are somewhat universal.

[kung fu fighter]

and that raise another issue which is after the touch when things are dynamic how to generate power. how is that power generation aids one? see different style has different power generation. A grapper rush in to grap one has started the momentum when one is grap. so how is a other stylist response to that momentum? can one ground or root that rush in momentum? can a hip push counter the full body rush in momentum of the grapper? or can the WCner dissolve the CLF's whip arm...etc. All of those are issues. The so called grounding and rooting, for me, are really very general, it might not suit one's style at all. or even worse it might counter one's effort.
For example a CLF using rooting /grounding power swing a punch at the WCner. if the WCner accept it with the same type of rooting/grounding, then the WCner will loose because 1, WCner has smaller physical expansion mechanics. 2, WCner is one step late in acceleration.

All, type of issues, if one doesnt look into these there is no way one could really use the art. This is because what one think could be against the nature or law of physics. I accept every idea one has what I am posting is can those ideas really work or it is just a believe which have never face the reality.

In general, WCner must be able to dissolve the grapper's hug at the first touch. it must not be the end of the story. it must not default to go down to the ground. otherwise what is WCK? Think about it. It no longer making any sense on all the posture training but can even do anything facing a hug.

Hendrik,

I think you have the wrong idea about rooting! my defination of rooting is to not stop the opponent's momentum, but instead how to continue it by using leverage from the ground to maneuver and manipulate the opponent's momentum in one's favor for a counter attack by moving in harmony with him. Think of what happens when you try to push a volley ball under water with one hand, how does the vollley ball respond in relation to your force to neutralize it

[Hendrik]

I think you have the wrong idea about rooting!

my defination of rooting is to not stop the opponent's momentum,

I am not talking about stop opponent's momentum

Read it again.

if the WCner accept it with the same type of rooting/grounding, then the WCner will loose because
1, WCner has smaller physical expansion mechanics.
2, WCner is one step late in acceleration.

but instead how to continue it by using leverage from the ground to maneuver and manipulate the opponent's momentum in one's favor for a counter attack by moving in harmony with him.

Your idea is sound however,


So, with WCK is a smaller frame or smaller physical expansion mechanics, and in a state of responsive timing which is starting late.

How do you pick up the acceleration and momentum while others has already rolling into you?

There are law of physics here needs to be answer.

Think of what happens when you try to push a volley ball under water with one hand, how does the vollley ball respond in relation to your force to neutralize it

You example is not applicable when a cannon ball is shooting at you already. it is not a volley ball under water.

if You cant pick up the acceleration and momentum in the bounded space and time, you hand will be blown away. That is law of physics.

Same power generation engine start late. it is not a volley ball under water which you push at. it is a cannon ball shooting at you and if your timing and speed is wrong it blown your hand away and not be able to even touch it. Try to catch a fast moving base ball which is coming at you is more like it. IMHO.

So, the bottom line, how do you relate or translate the grounding/rooting with this acceleration and momentum pick up. There is no magic but the whole mechanical system needs to be in a dynamic equilibrium otherwise one side got to go.

Let's not getting into Zen or mysterious..... plain simple physics.

If you use the same rooting/grounding method, other has already start the roll for sometime, how do you catch up while you have a smaller physical frame and your body is not in motion yet. Meaning you need to counter the innertial and over come the smaller motion to catch up with the others.

what do you think?

[kung fu fighter]

How do you pick up the acceleration and momentum while others has already rolling into you?

Comes accept! once you are in contact with the oppoenent, you control his spinal column at first touch and thus his balance as the primary first objective when attacked.

[Hendrik]

Comes accept! once you are in contact with the oppoenent, you control his spinal column at first touch and thus his balance as the primary first objective when attacked.

You dont get my points.

1, Come accept. How easy to accept a 100 miles base ball? how easy to come accept a fast boxer's punch or CLF's punch with full momentum?

does your hand has enough speed to make the contact without get blown away?

and how is that acceleration of hand power by your so called rooting and grounding?



2, how do you control his spinal column and in fact if that " base ball" or " fast punch" is too fast for you your wrist might be dislocate or any part of your limps weak link which take the impulse will break.

have you seriously contact with some hard style master's bridge in action where one's hand get slam away at the first contact? or both your tan hand and Da hand both get slam away?

From your reply, I presume you have never meet this grade of people.


You see, I dont buy nice wishes. It doesnt work. Your idea is very likely to be aborted at the first touch of the contact and the rest of the ideas die out.


One needs to know how to handle that in coming fast ball before talking about how to play the ball or what to control. that is just a cold fact.\

by now, some will say, oh, I will intercept his body...etc. Good, but then still how is your body generate the power to intercept his body? how is your so called grounding or rooting translate to the momentum created to intercept his body and sustain the impact since nothing is perfect.

[Shadow_warrior8]

Nothing to do with race, or culture.

No longer secret to only the chinese, real chinese kungfu is available to all as some of videos will show.

Simple formula, training in ancient proven methods produces same results for everyone.

If people dont ever train in it, to experience the results, all talk is just talk fu not
kung fu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZdtM...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMcZd...eature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2Qvo...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSnUD...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7QIFkd2ElE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1X8Ww4nymQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y_Eb...x=0&playnext=1

In the natural realm of things, survival goes to the fittest. Animals get extinct because they cant survive the enviroment, circumstances.

Thousands of years of chinese kungfu, qigong, tcm, tcma, concepts of fajing, fachi, fashen, have survived and prospered with the chinese emerging as the biggest population in the world.

And yet there are those who still doubt chinese kungfu, and chinese internal arts and ask if these things are true or exist.

For those who believe
No explanation is necessary

For those who do not believe
No explanation is possible

[taai gihk yahn]

You too I love you as you are.

LOL; ur such a twit...