Stopping the takedown

[t_niehoff]

What do you do when the opponent gets your leg?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlx3ay8dELQ

is the answer. Don't believe me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G-occarX0w

[Dragonzbane76]

"even though he have my leg, i'm on top of him wide enough"?????
"It's a trade off, I hit him he has leg"
hum....I think that guy didn't have a clear answer as to what to do actually. Only thing the guy said that would be of benifit was don't let him get the leg. Funny thing about the single leg is that yeah you might take a hit, but the point is for positioning, get the guy to the ground and mount and pound/sub. etc. and honestly who the hell has time if the single or double is deep enough to hit someone with any amount of force, the momentum will push you back on your a$$ or topple you.

[Sihing73]

Hello,

I'd stab him with one of the knives I always carry. All in fun, although I do usually carry at least one blade at all times, there is no assurance that I would be able to pull one out.

[HumbleWCGuy]

What do you do when the opponent gets your leg?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlx3ay8dELQ

is the answer. Don't believe me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G-occarX0w

I have to say, that was not very good. If my instructor would have shown me some crap like that, I might have considered training elsewhere. To be honest, T, if you don't like what you see in these videos, you should form your own lineage. Somehow, I suspect that you don't think much of a lot of Robert's stuff either hence, all the mma.

[anerlich]

Perspective: this was 1999. I had only just begun studying grappling then ,and I doubt T had done any at all. Most KF guys didn't know sh*t about it.

I wouldn't go to Saulo Ribiero to learn how to punch and kick, I wouldn't go to William Cheung or Robert Chu to learn takedown defense, and I wouldn't take T's advice on anything to do with fighting.

I didn't watch with audio. Pushing the head away is a good tactic, though to the outside would be much better. I can't see being able to hit the guy very hard while he's cutting an angle and taking you down. Far better to get the leg away before he can grab (sprawl) or release the grip somehow.

I suspect a fairly inept attempt by T to wind up TWC people.

Nice takedown, gotta try that.

[t_niehoff]

I have to say, that was not very good. If my instructor would have shown me some crap like that, I might have considered training elsewhere. To be honest, T, if you don't like what you see in these videos, you should form your own lineage. Somehow, I suspect that you don't think much of a lot of Robert's stuff either hence, all the mma.

Why would I form my own lineage when all lineage is bullsh1t? WCK is like riding a bike or playing golf -- are their lineages? I don't need to form a lineage to teach someone to ride a bike.

I don't know what you mean by "Robert's stuff". I think very highly of Robert and am thankful that I trained with him. He helped me make my WCK functional. He has the core curriculum of WCK, and can teach it very well.

W/r/t "all the MMA"-- as I have said before, if you want to be a well-rounded fighter, you NEED stand up,clinch, and ground skills and you NEED good, skilled people in those areas to spar with. Hence MMA.

[goju]

everyone knows the way you stop a takedown is too halt the person before he shoots and give him a long winded diatribe about how they should train. make sure to pepper in terms like "theoretical non fighters" to show them you mean business too.

[t_niehoff]

Perspective: this was 1999. I had only just begun studying grappling then ,and I doubt T had done any at all. Most KF guys didn't know sh*t about it.

All true. And, included in the "most KF guys" is William Cheung.

I wouldn't go to Saulo Ribiero to learn how to punch and kick, I wouldn't go to William Cheung or Robert Chu to learn takedown defense, and I wouldn't take T's advice on anything to do with fighting.

I don't ask anyone to take my advice. Nor do I teach seminars about things I don't know anything about or take money from people to show them how to fail.

I didn't watch with audio. Pushing the head away is a good tactic, though to the outside would be much better. I can't see being able to hit the guy very hard while he's cutting an angle and taking you down. Far better to get the leg away before he can grab (sprawl) or release the grip somehow.

I suspect a fairly inept attempt by T to wind up TWC people.

I don't think Cheung is any worse -- and certainly not better -- than most of the other WCK "masters."

I put this up to make a simple point. As you readily admit, Cheung is teaching something he knows little about. Certainly this is nothing that really ever worked for him in fighting, and certainly not against anyone with a decent takedown. It is purely a theoretical "answer". The people who actually do takedowns, who actually train with good grapplers -- like you -- instantly recognize how silly this whole thing is. Should we listen to what good grapplers/MMAists have to say or should we just accept it as true because Cheung says so?

And why should we not hold Cheung, and other WCK teachers, to the same standard in stand-up? Much of what Cheung, and others, show in stand up is pure nonsense -- all you have to do is ask good stand-up fighters and they'll tell you that what Cheung does, like his ground defense, won't work. So, should we ignore the good, proven stand-up fighters or accept it as true because Cheung says so?

[goju]

well another solution would be that we could all get lives, girlfriends,hobbies and you know actually train instead of wasting years babbling on about whos not doing this or that right

but thats just thinking rationally

[Knifefighter]

Perspective: this was 1999. I had only just begun studying grappling then ,and I doubt T had done any at all. Most KF guys didn't know sh*t about it.

I bet the guy asking the question did have had a some kind of grappling background. He did a nice step behind from the low single and followed it up with a smooth looking mount on the other. Most guys without grappling experience wouldn't throw on a mount like that. Interesting that he could have easily taken Cheung down from that position, but didn't. He probably asked for his money back after the seminar, though.

Back then, all the kung fu guys thought their forms had grappling and groundfighting. Kind of showed how worthless forms are.

I didn't watch with audio. Pushing the head away is a good tactic, though to the outside would be much better.

Actually, from the low single, you have to push the head to the inside. Even with a high single, if the guy works it halfway decently, you have to counter with the head on the inside. If you can counter a single with the head on the outside, that pretty much means your opponent sucks.

I can't see being able to hit the guy very hard while he's cutting an angle and taking you down.

You can always tell the clueless guys. They think they can hit you on the back of the head and it will make some kind of difference. That's one way to know someone has never gone full contact with takedowns.

Far better to get the leg away before he can grab (sprawl) or release the grip somehow.

Lots of things you can do once the opponent takes the leg- whizzer, 1/4 nelson, D'arce, push and spin, leg outside, etc. There's a lot more than just sprawling.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Why would I form my own lineage when all lineage is bullsh1t? WCK is like riding a bike or playing golf -- are their lineages? I don't need to form a lineage to teach someone to ride a bike.

I don't know what you mean by "Robert's stuff". I think very highly of Robert and am thankful that I trained with him. He helped me make my WCK functional. He has the core curriculum of WCK, and can teach it very well.

W/r/t "all the MMA"-- as I have said before, if you want to be a well-rounded fighter, you NEED stand up,clinch, and ground skills and you NEED good, skilled people in those areas to spar with. Hence MMA.

Your purpose for posting here is that that you want to save WCers from embarrassing defeats at the hands of any man, woman, or Girl Scout who dares challenge them. A way to save us, would be to start up your own chain of schools, creating your own WC branch. Now I know that you say that you aren't that good, but you couldn't do any more harm to WC than the people who are currently popularizing it.

[anerlich]

I bet the guy asking the question did have had a some kind of grappling background. He did a nice step behind from the low single and followed it up with a smooth looking mount on the other. Most guys without grappling experience wouldn't throw on a mount like that.

I agree. That was quite a nice little move.

Interesting that he could have easily taken Cheung down from that position, but didn't. He probably asked for his money back after the seminar, though.

If he asked a KF guy how to stop takedowns, he probably would have been parted from his money soon enough.

Actually, from the low single, you have to push the head to the inside. Even with a high single, if the guy works it halfway decently, you have to counter with the head on the inside. If you can counter a single with the head on the outside, that pretty much means your opponent sucks.

You're right. I was visualising what I'd learned and got my in/out sides wrong.

[anerlich]

I don't ask anyone to take my advice.

Can I ask you not to give it?

I put this up to make a simple point.

A point you've made before, several million times. Change the friggin' record.

[anerlich]

but you couldn't do any more harm to WC than the people who are currently popularizing it.

I think you're selling T short here. The full depths of his mediocrity are still unplumbed.

[YungChun]

There are still Chun teachers out there that would never "demo" something that didn't work.. And also recognize that things rarely "just work", it's %.. But either they could/would do it themselves right then and there against live resisting folks (or do their best to) or they would keep their mouth shut... Not all "TMA"/Chun teachers are the same, have the same standards, etc..

Also, there are those folks and schools among TMA stylists that fight hard, compete hard, train realistically and do so pretty darn well..

Terence you'd do well to re-calculate those folks back into the non theoretical, non scrub designations... Sure most of this stuff is fantasy foo but not all, not everyone, and they count too.

In the end it's when folks become "Grand High Exalted Mystic Rulers" of styles the problems start--they elevate themselves so high that they dare not ever fail. So actually working a defense could mean "failure" and everyone knows that "Grand High Exalted Mystic Rulers" of styles never fail...