Wing Chun "defeats" MMA

[SAAMAG]

Hit the eyes, the spine, or the balls. Duh.

Actually that's one of the arguments that drives me nuts. You don't have the skills to punch someone in the face but you're going to be able to poke him in the eye or crush his trachea????

Serious question though...no one will be able to viably say that the majority of their wing chun wouldn't be useable. So then were is the problem? It's not in the ruleset that's for sure.

[m1k3]

Serious question though...no one will be able to viably say that the majority of their wing chun wouldn't be useable. So then were is the problem? It's not in the ruleset that's for sure.

Its the training. Learn to do the basics under pressure. Do it in sparring or a competition where you are trying to hit him and he is trying to hit you. Once your good at this then throw in your just add dirt drills.

Its kind of like the way I look at BJJ. If I can take you down and pin you with a scarf hold for example there's no reason that on the street I couldn't add an eye gouge or a throat strike. Actually you could make that one of your train occasionally drills.

Just my 2 cents.

[Frost]

I have a question regarding people saying that this or that can't be used in "sport fighting" or those that make the distinction that the skills aren't transferable....

Let's assume you have 4 oz gloves on and a mouthpiece and the rules only state that you can't hit the eyes, the spine, or the balls.

What can't you do that is wing chun?

because most wing chun guys dont like to bang, they prefer to chi sao

[monji112000]

Sorry dude but I am a former Marine and so is Phil. I never saw anything like that when I was in and I'll bet Phil didn't either.

I agree with your mentally and physically tough comment though, add a lot of aggression with some basic training to that and you have one tuff hombre.

The thing is the military doesn't focus much on hand to hand. The programs are kind of laid out but its up to the individual to pursue them. There is too much other stuff that is too important that gets a higher priority in the training schedule.

I will admit you get a fair amount in boot/basic but to a large degree that is to build toughness and aggression and the warrior mentality, not great hand to hand skills.

Not if you're well trained. You are actually safer fighting as part of the unit. Doesn't matter if the guy banging on your shield is a great swordsman if your buddies spear is poking him in the guts or slashing him across the shins under your shield.

The individual skills only came into play if the shield wall is flanked or breaks.

Sorry dude, I train with active marines, navy seals and rangers. I live in the biggest military area on the east coast. Every branch brings in these jokers who con higher up people into believing they have some magic fighting style that can win against anyone. Its better than MMA, and its secret.
I hear the stories about it all the time... Oh you should have seen the guy today man, he had this stance and punch like... (insert something unrealistic).



Some of the stuff you need clearance to learn. Its so secret we (the us government) doesn't want anyone to know the techniques so no other military can train against it.


Military fighting has very little to do with highly skilled martial artists. I am in not way degrading our military.

[m1k3]

Sorry dude, I train with active marines, navy seals and rangers. I live in the biggest military area on the east coast. Every branch brings in these jokers who con higher up people into believing they have some magic fighting style that can win against anyone. Its better than MMA, and its secret.
I hear the stories about it all the time... Oh you should have seen the guy today man, he had this stance and punch like... (insert something unrealistic).



Some of the stuff you need clearance to learn. Its so secret we (the us government) doesn't want anyone to know the techniques so no other military can train against it.


Military fighting has very little to do with highly skilled martial artists. I am in not way degrading our military.

I agree with you. H2H just isn't a high priority and rightly so.
As for people being brought in, yeah that sh1t happens, but usually the BS doesn't make it into the official program.

And what ever you want to train on your own feel free. Although I haven't heard of any jarheads or paratroopers doing yellow bamboo yet.

[monji112000]

I agree with you. H2H just isn't a high priority and rightly so.
As for people being brought in, yeah that sh1t happens, but usually the BS doesn't make it into the official program.

And what ever you want to train on your own feel free. Although I haven't heard of any jarheads or paratroopers doing yellow bamboo yet.

I don't think the marines have it in the "official program", but I know of two other branches that have stuff like that. I know for a fact one of them you need clearance to learn, and you have to sign paper work to legally be allowed to look at the techniques.

[Frost]

Why doesn't MMA allow eagle claws to the throat?

It used to be allowed in ancient Pankration...

(Dang, my 1,000th post!)

one handed chokes were allowed back in the day, but these days you cant crush the wind pipe or anything like that

(not to mention that kind of choke just begs please break my arm)

[Frost]

D@mn.



I wonder about that. I'd put it in the moderately-high success column at least, because it's pretty easy to do and it's reasonably effective. The trachea is very fragile, and I'd say it takes less than two seconds to crush the windpipe once the fingers are around it.

Have you ever tried functioning when someone's thumb and fingers are moderately squeezing your trachea? it's VERY uncomfortable, and there is a tendency to panic/submit quickly. I guess it could be overcome, but better be quick!

Anyhow, although it's not allowed in the ring, it once was - perhaps to too great effect? A legitimate "2 d3ad1y for the Ring" technique perhaps?

not really cant remember anyone winning a fight with it, they banned a lot of things that the comission deemed too dangerous, elbows to the spine, shots to the back of head, without any proof of them working

[m1k3]

The problem with the trachea grab is that someone used to boxing or grappling instinctively keeps their chin tucked. With the chin tucked it's really hard to pull off that choke with getting armbared or taking a right cross.

[Hardwork108]

I wonder about that. I'd put it in the moderately-high success column at least, because it's pretty easy to do and it's reasonably effective. The trachea is very fragile, and I'd say it takes less than two seconds to crush the windpipe once the fingers are around it.

It would be even easier for someone who has genuinely trained a style such as Tiger Claw. How many of the people who criticize the TCMAs have an idea of what an authentic exponent of this style would be capable of?

[Hardwork108]

not really cant remember anyone winning a fight with it,

Do you remember anyone winning a fight by punching someone's wind pipe? Can you remember anyone winning a fight by hitting someone's neck? Or elbowing their spinal column?

I ask because all of the above have ARE functional techniques!

they banned a lot of things that the comission deemed too dangerous, elbows to the spine, shots to the back of head, without any proof of them working

Oh, they work alright, but you need to perhaps focusing on the individual methodologies that make them work. If you don't, then that is your choice as well, but please do not make any assumptions!

[bennyvt]

In sparing with the small ufc type gloves, the only things I have found that don't work as well are the kicks. We don't spar with shoes so my normal reaction to kick tend to hurt me as much if not more then them. Kicking with the feet is fine with shoes as any sport/ma that trains without shoes generally kicks with the shin. I haven't had a problem doing any hand techniques with the gloves.

[SoCo KungFu]

You guys are aware that recently a USC football player survived a weight lifting accident where 275lbs of weight slipped and crashed onto his neck while benchpressing, right? Granted he needed emergency surgery. The point being though, its highly doubtful you are just going to just up and inflict someone with that kind of force. Getting punched in the larynx hurts yes, it can be quite painful. So does getting clinched around it. The funny thing is those holds are rather easy to defeat, seriously it may be the only time that crappy chi'na thumb lock may actually work. Now if you go with a full out strangle hold, that's another issue. And while they suck, someone really intent on hurting you might not even be phased by a strike there. Kinda one of those things like nut checks, it might work but it might not.

At any rate, if you do inflict that kind of force to crush someones larynx, chances are its going to be another injury that would be more severe, like potential vascular sheering, nerve damage or C-spine injury.

But no, as cool as it was to see, you aren't just going to Steven Seagal someone's larynx out their throat like the movies. I don't care how good your tiger claw may be...

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/865277-overview

[Frost]

Do you remember anyone winning a fight by punching someone's wind pipe? Can you remember anyone winning a fight by hitting someone's neck? Or elbowing their spinal column?

I ask because all of the above have ARE functional techniques!



Oh, they work alright, but you need to perhaps focusing on the individual methodologies that make them work. If you don't, then that is your choice as well, but please do not make any assumptions!

How do you know they work, have you done them to someone or just read about it on the net?

let me rephrase, when they were allowed in the ring no fights are recorded to have been won using these techniques, the only victory recorded from a move now considered ilegal was from a groin strike...actually the guy got side control (a grappling position) and then teed off with a dozen punches to the groin

[Frost]

You guys are aware that recently a USC football player survived a weight lifting accident where 275lbs of weight slipped and crashed onto his neck while benchpressing, right? Granted he needed emergency surgery. The point being though, its highly doubtful you are just going to just up and inflict someone with that kind of force. Getting punched in the larynx hurts yes, it can be quite painful. So does getting clinched around it. The funny thing is those holds are rather easy to defeat, seriously it may be the only time that crappy chi'na thumb lock may actually work. Now if you go with a full out strangle hold, that's another issue. And while they suck, someone really intent on hurting you might not even be phased by a strike there. Kinda one of those things like nut checks, it might work but it might not.

At any rate, if you do inflict that kind of force to crush someones larynx, chances are its going to be another injury that would be more severe, like potential vascular sheering, nerve damage or C-spine injury.

But no, as cool as it was to see, you aren't just going to Steven Seagal someone's larynx out their throat like the movies. I don't care how good your tiger claw may be...

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/865277-overview

you are aware that the weight bar wasn't trained in proper tigerclaw kung fu....if it was the fight might have ended differently

who here hasnt been hit in the throat, dropped on his head etc in the course of grappling or sparring, things happen and as you pointed out the neck and throat is stronger than given credit by most people