Couture vs. Vera - WCK?

[chusauli]

I don't know how many of you saw this fight, but Randy Couture instinctively used tactics we're familiar with against a much younger opponent, Brandon Vera. What would you call Randy's fighting method? How would you describe it?

http://mmahits.com/fight-video/mma-v...a-fight-video/

I'd like to hear your feedback!

[Frost]

I don't know how many of you saw this fight, but Randy Couture instinctively used tactics we're familiar with against a much younger opponent, Brandon Vera. What would you call Randy's fighting method? How would you describe it?

http://mmahits.com/fight-video/mma-v...a-fight-video/

I'd like to hear your feedback!

world class wrestling mixed with good close range boxing

he used wide punches and low shots/single attempts to get in close and kept the fight there he wanted nothing to do with Veras long range striking, he kept the pressure on in the clinch mixing tie ups with single attempts put all his weight on Vera and really bullied him

[Dragonzbane76]

master of clinch with dirty boxing tactics, a smart fighter, uses stratagy over force most times, a genetic freak to fight at his age.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Randy isn't wc trained but if I had to pull a tape of what WC should basically look like in MMA, I would pull a tape on Randy. He demonstrates tight mistake free long range striking mixed with top-notch clinching. Randy likes the takedown more than a WC man would but it isn't really a problem as I believe that takeowns are a seamless addendum to WC.

Randy has really no talent as a striker, but his ability to remain tight, efficient, and disciplined make it so that he can hold his own against anyone. To me, that is what WC striking is about more than anything. WC done correctly should allow a person to hold his own against anyone.

[Wayfaring]

Randy is a classic Greco-Roman wrestler. If you look up the rules for Greco, and how they differ from folkstyle or freestyle wrestling, you will see that clearly. I know people locally who came up through wrestling ranks with Randy.

Greco can be looked at like clinching and throws above the waist. The reason it is effective in the cage is that its method for clinching above the waist involves a lot of forward pressure toward the opponent at all times, and that makes it difficult for striking opponents for the most part to get a lot of leverage and power into strikes against it.

So other than the fact that WCK is supposed to have "forward intent" to effect an opponent in the same fashion there is absolutely no similarity between what Randy Couture does and WCK.

[Ultimatewingchun]

randy is a classic greco-roman wrestler. If you look up the rules for greco, and how they differ from folkstyle or freestyle wrestling, you will see that clearly. I know people locally who came up through wrestling ranks with randy.

Greco can be looked at like clinching and throws above the waist. The reason it is effective in the cage is that its method for clinching above the waist involves a lot of forward pressure toward the opponent at all times, and that makes it difficult for striking opponents for the most part to get a lot of leverage and power into strikes against it.

So other than the fact that wck is supposed to have "forward intent" to effect an opponent in the same fashion there is absolutely no similarity between what randy couture does and wck.

***this...

[sanjuro_ronin]

There are lots of cross-over in terms of MA "principles" from style to style, it's only naturla sense humans can only move in certain optimal ways.
Sure what Randy did can be viewed as "wing chunish in principle", but SHOULD it be viewed that way sense Randy NEVER has done any WC ?
Nope.
AT best we can say that it was another example of strategy transending style, or we can see it was another example of the universal principles of human combat.

[HumbleWCGuy]

There are lots of cross-over in terms of MA "principles" from style to style, it's only naturla sense humans can only move in certain optimal ways.
Sure what Randy did can be viewed as "wing chunish in principle", but SHOULD it be viewed that way sense Randy NEVER has done any WC ?
Nope.
AT best we can say that it was another example of strategy transending style, or we can see it was another example of the universal principles of human combat.

To me it is just the general way that Randy goes about his business in the upright game that makes it encouraging to WCers, but I agree there is no way in heck that anyone should look at Randy and call what he does WC. No one should be putting Randy's wins down as wins for WC.

[SoCo KungFu]

Being encouraged is fine. But what WC people need to do is figure out how it is that he trains and incorporates "similar" striking; probably better than 99% of the WC people that have been striking for years longer than he has. What is in his training that allows him to do it better than the majority of those who are supposed to be experts in this regard?

[HumbleWCGuy]

Being encouraged is fine. But what WC people need to do is figure out how it is that he trains and incorporates "similar" striking; probably better than 99% of the WC people that have been striking for years longer than he has. What is in his training that allows him to do it better than the majority of those who are supposed to be experts in this regard?

For me, that's really what it is about. If I were a young man who was dissatisfied with the state of my training I would look at a guy like Couture and start thinking about how I could modify my training to make it work like Couture. Couture isn't WC trained, but, Couture's upright, especially in space, is philosophically consistent with WC other than his commitment to takedowns. A WC trained person should be able to duplicate a lot of what Randy does in the ring when he is upright.

As you said, it really just comes down to committing time to a boxing style training program that his heavier on striking and movement. For whatever reason, in kung fu, there is far too much emphasis on trapping hands in the training. I find that odd since the hallmark of good kung fu is usually one's ability to strike.

[Merryprankster]

For me, that's really what it is about. If I were a young man who was dissatisfied with the state of my training I would look at a guy like Couture and start thinking about how I could modify my training to make it work like Couture. Couture isn't WC trained, but, Couture's upright, especially in space, is philosophically consistent with WC other than his commitment to takedowns. A WC trained person should be able to duplicate a lot of what Randy does in the ring when he is upright.

As you said, it really just comes down to committing time to a boxing style training program that his heavier on striking and movement. For whatever reason, in kung fu, there is far too much emphasis on trapping hands in the training. I find that odd since the hallmark of good kung fu is usually one's ability to strike.

If you would like to modify your training to have it look more like Couture's, go learn greco roman wrestling.

General you, not YOU.

[Knifefighter]

I don't know how many of you saw this fight, but Randy Couture instinctively used tactics we're familiar with against a much younger opponent, Brandon Vera. What would you call Randy's fighting method? How would you describe it?

http://mmahits.com/fight-video/mma-v...a-fight-video/

I'd like to hear your feedback!

That's what WC WOULD HAVE looked like if it was developed under realistic conditions.

[HumbleWCGuy]

If you would like to modify your training to have it look more like Couture's, go learn greco roman wrestling.

General you, not YOU.

As I said, there is a lot that he does that is outside the wrestling sphere that he does well that are consistent with WC. Most of the wrestling is not consistent and would require instruction from a wrestling coach to develop.

[Dragonzbane76]

wrestling as a broad term is off. There are differences in greco and western wrestling and mongolian wrestling. Different in tactics and application. If you've never wrestled then I could understand not getting what I'm saying. I have limited experience with WC but I do have a wrestling/grappling background.