The Key

[Alan Orr]

Using the princibles and flat out breaking the rules of VT are different things.
Its like when the karate guys "looked" for the hidden moves in kata and just added a bunch of stuff that they had seen that looked the same.
My point is a guilloten or a headlock is not VT and calling it is just a way of justifing why you use other styles. As I have said I don't have a problem with people fighting anyway. Just don't call a head high kick a VT move. Which by the way is in the opening credits of your NHB wing chun DVD's

I do use other systems of martial arts. You don't listen.

You don't seem to be able to understand. I am saying is some movements are generic, so in our Chin Na sets we use the head control from our applications within our 2nd and 3 forms. This might be different to you, so what?

If you are asking from a grappling point of view. Is it BJJ or catch headlock?

We do use high kicks in our Wing Chun lol. We are not limited. Wing Chun is alive so it must be used that way. You keep looking at techniques, thats not wing chun. Seeing wing chun as techniques is a limited view in my mind. We look at power development, timing, balance etc etc the techniques are like tools bits on a drill. You can use different tools for different jobs. But the drill is the drill.

[bennyvt]

So which VT princibles are there in a head high round kick. Or throwing big looping hooks. The only way you are limited by my view is if I then said VT is a completet system and didn't do wnything else. I do other stuff but its not VT.

[Alan Orr]

So which VT princibles are there in a head high round kick. Or throwing big looping hooks. The only way you are limited by my view is if I then said VT is a completet system and didn't do wnything else. I do other stuff but its not VT.

Yes, you keep saying.

We will have too disagree then.

[HumbleWCGuy]

This is a limited way to think. You have you main art for each main area in MMA.

Stand up - we have CSL Wing Chun.

We also have wrestling for takedowns.

On the ground we have Wrestling, Catch and BJJ plus you can had other grappling arts if you wish

Now on the ground if I grab an arm and pull it across is in lap sao or an arm drag?

Now if in the clinch I have an under hook and I lift it high is ian high underhook or is it tan sao to Tok sao?

Now if I strike on the ground am I using wing chun on my knees?


Now if I cross face in the clinch is it wrestling or a lan sao?

Now if its on the ground do I under side cross side and flex my elbow to pin - BJJ OR wrestling or is if a bong sao.

Well the way WE (CSL) look at it all is this. Principles firsts - the terms are related to the art and the person you are talking too. Ie if I am teaching wrestling its an underhook, if I teaching wing chun its tan to tok. These are generic principles of body movement. After that you have concepts, which are ideas of what you may like or could do depending on your skills and understanding, bodytype and so on.

My BJJ teacher shows me BJJ applications which I have often seen in catch before, but its still BJJ as we are still training in that art at that time. Its just words to communicate, dont hold on to them so hard as its not the art.

The art is 'body structure' - 'base' - timing, position, weight, balance etc etc

Alan

Alan, you need to get on here more and help your teacher to correctly represent CSL. T is killing you guys with his double talk. The best thing would be to corner T. behind closed doors and smack the dog **** out of him.

[Alan Orr]

Alan, you need to get on here more and help your teacher to correctly represent CSL. T is killing you guys with his double talk. The best thing would be to corner T. behind closed doors and smack the dog **** out of him.

Not sure what you mean. Everyone is looking to find out what we agree and disagree on lol why? Who really cares. My teacher and his students are all grown men who can think without having to check that they are reading from the same scroll lol.

CSL Wing Chun is the art we learn and then we express our skills. Two different things, thats part of learning and growing.

Alan

[HumbleWCGuy]

Not sure what you mean. Everyone is looking to find out what we agree and disagree on lol why? Who really cares. My teacher and his students are all grown men who can think without having to check that they are reading from the same scroll lol.

CSL Wing Chun is the art we learn and then we express our skills. Two different things, thats part of learning and growing.

Alan

For me it is less about the three of you needing to spout the same dogma and more about T.'s nonsensical viewpoints that vacillate from one extreme to the other, especially concerning the nature of WC.

Both you and Robert make sensible and consistent points. Although the two of you may have some differing views, you represent your art well because you speak in a sensible manner about it.