The Key

[JPinAZ]

FFS, what's this?! A guilty conscience, Freudian slip? Robert just categorically denied stealing from Chi Sim. At no point in his post did he make any accusations against either Tony Jacobs or HFYWCK.

No, no slip or guilty concience. He's made these insinuations in the past here and on other forums repeatedly for years. Even the rediculous link he just posted was a result of yet another attempt to slam HFY, he just can't help himself. Funny, he failed to also submit the part he wrote earlier that that thread was all in reply too (where he was again bagging on HFY).

Even in that link he was nice enough to provide we can see his crap talk. While the main issue in that link was between him and the VTM, he also didn't hesitate to have his boy alan take shots at HFY and TWC on his behalf. (funny, robert has no problem posting here, but had to have his lap dog alan do it for him on that thread ).

Example - Robert: "What is the truth behind the similarity of HFY and TWC and where is the proof? someone is lying about the origins of their WCK - and since I studied with William Cheung, I don't think he is lying about Yip Man teaching him"

What the hell is he talking about? It's the same old crap over and over and over, yet he tries to pin this stuff on HFY people. It's a joke, this guy doesn't know crap about either system - he's an outsider trying to act like a big man.
He did a couple workshops with GM Cheung back in what, the EIGHTIES?!? BFD. And he knows nothing of HFY except a few stolen terms he interpreted all wrong and some forms he saw once. Now he thinks knows enough to call respected Grand Masters of the systems lyars? hahaha. This is just another example of his gossiping and rumor milling.

Bottom line, no one stole anything from anyone except Robert.
Just by looking at the 2 systems' forms (as Robert mentions as his silly 'proof'), how is it that I can see they aren't the same when he can't? Oh yeah, he doesn't no crap about either. Sure, they have similarities in sequence, but Robert's too stupid to see any further or deeper than that. I touched on the similarities and differences of concepts on just the opening of the dummy in another thread. I notice he didn't have anything to say on that.

Yes, of course they both obviously share common ancestry (as does all WCK for that matter). No sh!t. But the split happened a long time ago, and they are 2 great systems that now stand on their own because of it. TWC comes down thru the Red Boats and Wong Wah Bo. HFY comes from Red Flower boxers and Hun Gun Biu. Robert keeps trying to rewrite history, but he is an outsider to both systems. All he does is look like a fool when he tries to act as an expert on something he knows nothing about.
This guy doens't know a dam thing about either system, yet thinks he's smart enough to call them lyars. Some researcher
--------------------------
On another note, in the link he provided he tries to bag on Benny Meng's skills. "Because BM's WCK was so lacking, and his power was coming from his shoulders, I had to correct BM's lack of stance, structure and mechanics, all of which he could not learn from Moy Yat, as a distance learning student...

If that's so, then why when Benny Meng visited with Robert, in the same video video Robert is heard saying disrepsctful things about GM Cheung, did Benny run through every one of Robert's students in Chi Sau? It wasn't even a challenge for Benny. One after the other, benny tossed them around because their WCK was so 'lacking' as Robert puts it. Robert was so frustrated he even yelled at his students "all of you should be exectuted!!" in the video. It's also funny Robert refused to touch benny's hands that day with the camera on
And, when asked how it was that Benny could handle all of his students, Benny replied "because they lack forward energy". And there's talk of Robert's Chi Sau coming from Benny, no wonder why...

[Ultimatewingchun]

Ah yes, the famous lawyer's half truth spin crap rides again.

When one half of the whole story is told and the attempt is made to pass it off as the whole story.

A half truth always means that the other half is a lie.

And the lie is that "everybody steals form everybody - and that's the end of the story."

NO, IT'S NOT.

Because when you spend about 30 years not only stealing from everybody...but you also try to tell any and all who will listen that the people you stole from are 5hit...and when you also spend decades trying to play one "5hit" against another "5hit"...including paying compliments and making nicey-nice when you see or talk to one or the other "5hit"...and then rip them apart when you talk to someone else (verbally, of course, since the big "I'll huff and I'll puff" talk is always just talk)...

and then you try to package your "new product" (which contains about 20% wing chun and 80% of whatever)....as if it's now God's new gift to the wing chun world...

your karma is going to come back and bite you in the a55.

Conclusion? What a load of 5HIT !!!!

[chusauli]

People need an identity to boost their ego. When they strengthen their sense of ego with "righteousness", they will go through anything to say "You're wrong, and I'm right!" This is all spirited talk. And it is funny!

One thing I always wondered about is that HFY must share roots in Lui Yon Sang's Fei Lung Fu Mun as it shares the same key concepts for the pole. I wonder how it can be? I know my Sifu, Lui Yon Sang, did not study HFY, he studied with Kwan Sai Lung, and his work was published all over China. Its always a great mystery to me. And I mean this sincerely - no claims of thefts, or otherwise, but are we related?!

A while back, I met with the son of one of old SF's Chinatown's martial artists. He told me how there was tons of infighting amongst the Chinese in the old days and interschool rivals. As they got older, they put aside their differences and realized they were getting older, they were ailing, some were dying. Eventually, they became the best of friends, meeting socially, playing Mah Jong, having meals, etc. How many Gung Fu Lo's were left?

If I say what I am doing as not WCK, everyone would say its WCK. If I say its WCK, everyone will say its not WCK. LOL!

Have a nice day guys! You've all certainly entertained me well today! I look forward to having tea!

[chusauli]

Victor, you certainly crack me up! You are beginning to make me think "Parlotti" means "Parle" (To Talk) and "Lotti" (A lot)!

LOL!

Which is what you should call your WC! "Parlotti WC"!

[Ultimatewingchun]

Wrong again, Robert.

Victor Parlati translates as: "0ne who speaks victoriously."

And yeah, just can't wait for the day when we all get to play mah jong.

[Wayfaring]

Sounds like we have a new battle cry for the KFO WCK forums.


MAH JONG, mofos!!!!!!

[canglong]

originally posted by Robert Chu
People need an identity to boost their ego. When they strengthen their sense of ego with "righteousness", they will go through anything to say "You're wrong, and I'm right!" This is all spirited talk. And it is funny!

Seriously, that is exactly what you were attempting to do in the first place by comparing lineages and styles as if you really had a clue.

originally posted by Robert Chu
One thing I always wondered about is that HFY must share roots in Lui Yon Sang's Fei Lung Fu Mun as it shares the same key concepts for the pole. I wonder how it can be? I know my Sifu, Lui Yon Sang, did not study HFY, he studied with Kwan Sai Lung, and his work was published all over China. Its always a great mystery to me. And I mean this sincerely - no claims of thefts, or otherwise, but are we related?!

See there you go again. Robert you always have a lot to say about what other people are doing but little to say in way of answering what it is you have been doing over these past years. We see you trying to profit from DVDs and such but what we do not see is where the experience skill and knowledge needed to produce the material might have come from.

We know you like to exchange videos and read notes. Your chi sim knowledge comes from a video. Your Gu loa knowledge is a collection of notes and not a single student worth mentioning in the discipline itself. You were unable to demonstrate any sign of skill when given the chance the TWC workshop you were shut down, Monterey park you left, Chi Sau with Benny Meng you took a pass and Chi Sim had you in a headlock and left defenseless. This is the end result of learning from video as you seem to like to do anyone can buy a video it takes years of actual hands on learning to acquire experience and skill something you seem unwilling to do. The chi sim video by the way you said would be for your private viewing and learning only which we now know is in wide circulation. You use copies of videos to acquire copies of other videos which you then use to "learn" from and this is why you consider yourself an expert because of the size of your video collection and not the amount of certificates from your sifus.

Introducing another sifu into your already long list of teachers that have publicly stated you were lacking in skill and knowledge is not something you every shy away from but it doesn't ever help your case unless you demonstrate at some point you are able to either use or pass this knowledge on to some of your students. Something you have yet to do.

Currently we know that Terence is constantly on this forum harping how wing chun doesn't work you would like to shy away from the fact that he is your prize student but it doesn't really work that way. Also there is you on tape yelling at your students about how poorly they performed against Benny Meng. As their teacher you wanted none of the blame. In that case Benny even had to explain to you what your students were doing wrong. The only interesting thing about seeing you on a DVD would be to see how much you are willing to talk about structure a s opposed to ever demonstrating yourself how structure can be appropriately applied.

originally posted by Robert Chu
Victor, you certainly crack me up! You are beginning to make me think "Parlotti" means "Parle" (To Talk) and "Lotti" (A lot)!

There are many differences between Victor and yourself that is for sure. When Victor talks at least he is doing it from the stand point of experience he is certified in TWC by his sifu and on the topic he speaks with experience and authority. Robert you on the other hand like to talk but from a different perspective. We know Lee Moy Shan did not certify you and Moy Yat stated that your skill level showed you to be a beginner in wing chun or at the siu nim tao level. You talk to feed your enormous ego. You watch videos and you exchange videos and then run your mouth. As for HFY you like to sound as if visiting the school, borrowing some terms and reading books has the ability to give you experience and skill. Only a BS artist tries to impress others on topics they no nothing about which is what you have been doing for years with your notes, your videos and your collection of stolen terms. As long as you can talk on a DVD or as long as you can post on a forum your BS talk is satisfying to your ego. The real structure test is being done by people like Victor, myself and others on the floor of the kwoons everywhere far from the sound of your BS.

[chusauli]

Tony,

You poor, poor person.

So much for your "Chan", and all your "true" martial arts training. You sadly make your family and your grandmaster Garrett Gee, Sigung Benny Meng, and Sifu Richard Loewenhaagen look bad. This is what your training does for you? Its unhealthy and exposes what low intelligence you have to stick with this nonsense.

You are so overrun by your mind and the need to be "right" - the imagined "superiority". People can see right through you, the fear, the insecurity. You need me so much to be your enemy to define your boundary and feed your ego and illusion of "self". The stories you tell all justify your need to be "right" and "superior". The thoughts and stories you tell make you unhappy, not me.

I truly pity you. Poor guy!

[anerlich]

"Parlotti WC"!

Wasn't Parlotti that big opera singer dude with the beard?

My father in law used to talk about how he liked the three tenors - Carreras, Parlotti and Mandingo

[Alan Orr]

Seriously, that is exactly what you were attempting to do in the first place by comparing lineages and styles as if you really had a clue.

See there you go again. Robert you always have a lot to say about what other people are doing but little to say in way of answering what it is you have been doing over these past years. We see you trying to profit from DVDs and such but what we do not see is where the experience skill and knowledge needed to produce the material might have come from.

We know you like to exchange videos and read notes. Your chi sim knowledge comes from a video. Your Gu loa knowledge is a collection of notes and not a single student worth mentioning in the discipline itself. You were unable to demonstrate any sign of skill when given the chance the TWC workshop you were shut down, Monterey park you left, Chi Sau with Benny Meng you took a pass and Chi Sim had you in a headlock and left defenseless. This is the end result of learning from video as you seem to like to do anyone can buy a video it takes years of actual hands on learning to acquire experience and skill something you seem unwilling to do. The chi sim video by the way you said would be for your private viewing and learning only which we now know is in wide circulation. You use copies of videos to acquire copies of other videos which you then use to "learn" from and this is why you consider yourself an expert because of the size of your video collection and not the amount of certificates from your sifus.

Introducing another sifu into your already long list of teachers that have publicly stated you were lacking in skill and knowledge is not something you every shy away from but it doesn't ever help your case unless you demonstrate at some point you are able to either use or pass this knowledge on to some of your students. Something you have yet to do.

Currently we know that Terence is constantly on this forum harping how wing chun doesn't work you would like to shy away from the fact that he is your prize student but it doesn't really work that way. Also there is you on tape yelling at your students about how poorly they performed against Benny Meng. As their teacher you wanted none of the blame. In that case Benny even had to explain to you what your students were doing wrong. The only interesting thing about seeing you on a DVD would be to see how much you are willing to talk about structure a s opposed to ever demonstrating yourself how structure can be appropriately applied.


There are many differences between Victor and yourself that is for sure. When Victor talks at least he is doing it from the stand point of experience he is certified in TWC by his sifu and on the topic he speaks with experience and authority. Robert you on the other hand like to talk but from a different perspective. We know Lee Moy Shan did not certify you and Moy Yat stated that your skill level showed you to be a beginner in wing chun or at the siu nim tao level. You talk to feed your enormous ego. You watch videos and you exchange videos and then run your mouth. As for HFY you like to sound as if visiting the school, borrowing some terms and reading books has the ability to give you experience and skill. Only a BS artist tries to impress others on topics they no nothing about which is what you have been doing for years with your notes, your videos and your collection of stolen terms. As long as you can talk on a DVD or as long as you can post on a forum your BS talk is satisfying to your ego. The real structure test is being done by people like Victor, myself and others on the floor of the kwoons everywhere far from the sound of your BS.

Tony you are a joker! lol

The same repeat of BS. Anyone who thinks my teacher 'Robert Chu Sifu' is not a true master of his arts - then please come to my club and try us out. We have guys at all weights and would be more than happy to test our understand of wing chun as taught to us my my teacher Robert Chu.

We have had over 100 MMA fights now, we have 3 MMA champions. We have tested out art under pressure. If my teacher did not know his wing chun then how could this be?

Yes, you are the same Tony that once came to the UK and told your host not to let Alan know where you all would be lol

All your lies have been answered a million times, but you just seem to think you can just keep saying it and it may come true. lol Its very sad.

hfy hates being asked any questions about its background as they make up the answers lol Where is all the prove that Meng had? Oh hes not with you guys now, why is that?

I can start asking questions again. Could be fun to know what is this years answers.



Alan

www.alanorr.com

[canglong]

Originally posted by Robert Chu
"Because BM's WCK was so lacking, and his power was coming from his shoulders, I had to correct BM's lack of stance, structure and mechanics, all of which he could not learn from Moy Yat, as a distance learning student...

The truth of the matter, Robert, in the Moy Yat lineage BM is your Sibak. The Moy Yat family is quite traditional meaning that the seniors teach the juniors and not the other way around as you describe it. Not even mentioning the fact that in the beginning of "the video" Robert is once again heard doing nothing but bad mouthing and making fun other families like WT and TWC in a very disrespectful manner. It was supposed to be a private video and there is an established pattern for Robert when it comes to things like that so no need to go too deep into that. But also in the video Robert you can be heard to be projecting yourself as an expert and know it all in comparison to the men you put down. Yet, Robert your students that chi sau with BM were all easily controlled by him because as he put it they were all lacking in forward energy. BM even said he had to also explain that to you or you might still be wondering to this day why he was able to handle them so easily. These are not things where people have to rely on the opinion and memory of others when all they have to do is look at the video. So as Robert is prone to do try as he might there is no denying that which is on tape for everyone to see. That is after his students chi sau with BM, Robert was not looking like an expert teacher but rather like a frustrated, angry and defeated man.

If that's so, then why when Benny Meng visited with Robert, in the same video video Robert is heard saying disrepsctful things about GM Cheung, did Benny run through every one of Robert's students in Chi Sau? It wasn't even a challenge for Benny. One after the other, benny tossed them around because their WCK was so 'lacking' as Robert puts it. Robert was so frustrated he even yelled at his students "all of you should be exectuted!!" in the video. It's also funny Robert refused to touch benny's hands that day with the camera on
And, when asked how it was that Benny could handle all of his students, Benny replied "because they lack forward energy". And there's talk of Robert's Chi Sau coming from Benny, no wonder why...

This too has been pointed out by BM in which he states emphatically the money he paid Robert was not worth it. Even though you Robert claim to be an expert in the art of Gu Loa wing chun he says you could not remember all the 40 points of Gu Loa and that is why you had to continually refer to your notses and there was no demonstration of the art. Once the gu loa notes were discussed in detail the rest of the time was spent on Moy Yat wing chun. So it is kind of easy to see why there was some question as to who really benefited from that particular meeting after all was said and done and why some might question whether or not Robert's chi sau was actually coming from Benny.

Orignally posted by Alan Orr
Tony you are a joker! lol

That is fine Alan you always want to make a joke out of things with your little lol. Everyone likes a good joke every now and then but everything has its time and place.You come here again to back up your sifu everyone knows that is good stuff where I come from so I can at least respect you for that if nothing else. My own background is from a family of members who served in the US Military as I did myself like the movie says code, honor integrity these words have meaning to people such as myself. Only thing is I think every person should take responsible for their own actions, not pass them off to others. After I viewed that video of Robert, I could see embarrassment in the eyes of Robert's students while he was saying they should be executed after failing to chi sau with BM. At the same time the students were probably hoping to see their sifu in action sort of defending their honor if you will. That never happend because Robert made sure not to touch hands with BM on the tape. When Robert was being rejected by Moy Yat and Lee Moy Shan at least they had the common decency to as they put it just ignore this character. Robert couldn't even learn from that example as I watch the faces of his dejected students on this video he hurt them more emotionally with his own words than BM ever could physically with chi sau.

We are all students all the time but even so we remain fallibly human something all good teachers know and work to better. Robert calling me names won't change that. Nor will your coming in here to defend him and calling me names change the facts either. You have the opportunity to be better than Robert Chu by defending him using your info as you know it to be not as you wish it to be. Not by ignoring the video proof but allow Robert Chu to stop hiding behind you as he did those 10 or so students on tape that day and let him address the issue directly.

Robert Chu was the one talking bad about others on tape Robert was the one claiming to have skill he refused to demonstrate and it was Robert who embarrassed himself and his students that day with his words and his actions and is now unwilling to take responsibility for his actions. That movie the Karate Kid the ending shows even a child can learn how to accept responsibility for his actions. Robert has not demonstrated the ability to do this his action on this video where he blames his students and now me and everyone else shows to this day that Robert has not grown any since the day of its taping and he is still unwilling to do the simplest of things like ever admit he played a part in the poor performance of those "students" all in order to as he put it boost his own ego.

[Alan Orr]

Tony you must have banged you head dude. lol

My teacher trained in Moy Yat's wing chun over 20 years ago. When he taught benny it was a a long time after and he had a different level completly. Thats why he moved on from Moy Yats. This is been said sooo... many times!

You may remember I went to see Benny after all the lies you guys where putting out. benny did not support you lies at all. face to face he was very nice about it all and told me he was sorry for the problems hfy where causing. Now he has left Hfy - funny.

You may remember I taught at a seminar with Andreas. He had nothing but good things to say about my teacher and when I asked him about the stuff you guys where saying - he laughed. He told me 100% it was just a friendly exchange of applications as two friends where showing each other their ideas and systems.

You talk about ego all the time. My teacher is the first to say he learns from anyone with skill. He even can learn from seeing those without skill lol Thats good kung fu.

You talk about honour and integrity, but you have none lol You talk talk over and over the same BS! Even when its been answered over ad over. Thats why I laugh.

You live is a dream world, so it must be hard when someone is trying to wake you up.

Alan

[goju]

Tony you are a joker! lol

The same repeat of BS. Anyone who thinks my teacher 'Robert Chu Sifu' is not a true master of his arts - then please come to my club and try us out. We have guys at all weights and would be more than happy to test our understand of wing chun as taught to us my my teacher Robert Chu.

Wouldn't it make more sense to test Robert out rather than his students?After all his abilities and understanding are being called into question by some on here not his students thus it comes down to what he can specifically do not his pupils especially when you consider said students have likely picked up a wealth of training else where to go along with what he has taught.

I believe Sanjuro stated before it's not what your teacher can do it's what YOU can do.Well the opposite applies as well.

[Alan Orr]

Wouldn't it make more sense to test Robert out rather than his students?After all his abilities and understanding are being called into question by some on here not his students thus it comes down to what he can specifically do not his pupils especially when you consider said students have likely picked up a wealth of training else where to go along with what he has taught.

I believe Sanjuro stated before it's not what your teacher can do it's what YOU can do.Well the opposite applies as well.

Likely?? More BS guess work and statements based on nothing. Thats why I am not a fan of forums. Everyone has something to say about stuff they have no clue about. lol

If my teacher did not have good wing chun skills then why and how have I produced such a strong group with his system?

I know my teachers level and it is very high indeed. I have seen and trained in all other branches of wing chun over my 20 + years. It was not until I started with my teacher that I found the real deal stuff. If you would like to test my teacher then good luck lol he is humble as he is not interested in fighting over childs stuff. But I would not want to be the one pushing him.

A test of a teachers skill is the level of his students. I think CSL wing chun has proved its level more than most.

Alan

[goju]

Likely?? More BS guess work and statements based on nothing. Thats why I am not a fan of forums. Everyone has something to say about stuff they have no clue about. lol

Actually it is simple logic something that this forum often lacks.

If my teacher did not have good wing chun skills then why and how have I produced such a strong group with his system?

By learning from other teachers and cross training in different arts. I'm sure since you're doing MMA you're spending quite some time cross training in non wing chun styles (I.E boxing,MT, BJJ, Wrastlin,etc,etc) correct?

Better to guage the art at its "purest" by sparring with the guy who does Chu Wing Chun soley rather than chu WC+ MMA don't ya think?

I know my teachers level and it is very high indeed. I have seen and trained in all other branches of wing chun over my 20 + years. It was not until I started with my teacher that I found the real deal stuff. If you would like to test my teacher then good luck lol he is humble as he is not interested in fighting over childs stuff. But I would not want to be the one pushing him.

To be fair almost everyone claims this about their style, teacher, school yadda yadda.