The Key

[YungChun]

Well, I've never tried doing it myself, but I can conceive of it working where a guy tries to grab my beer and I grab his arm and punch him in the face.

In this case you should always regain control of the beer first.... So IOW lop the beer.. Otherwise it will spill as you lop his arm...

Humans grab... Chun grabs.. It's all in how and when and why.. Grapplers don't grab?

Hey Paul doesn't SPM grab?

[sanjuro_ronin]

In this case you should always regain control of the beer first.... So IOW lop the beer.. Otherwise it will spill as you lop his arm...

You sound like a man with experience in these matters.

[Knifefighter]

Black and white makes for a boring rainbow..

So you don't think you can convert to an arm drag from a lop?

LOL... of course you can't. They are done with different arms from completely differing angles.

[Knifefighter]

In this case you should always regain control of the beer first.... So IOW lop the beer.. Otherwise it will spill as you lop his arm...

Humans grab... Chun grabs.. It's all in how and when and why.. Grapplers don't grab?

Not with grabs that don't work... again, you will never see a lap sao in grappling.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Please provide some evidence for that type of lop sao working in a full contact environment.

I am about to start billing you for all the free martial arts information that I give you. A pretty standard tacit used in mma is to use an undertook on one side of the opponents body and to pull down the opponent's other hand with a lop sao. From that position a variety of offensive activities can occur. Lop saos occur all the time to move peoples hands out of the way for strikes both in the ground and in the clinch.

[YungChun]

LOL... of course you can't. They are done with different arms from completely differing angles.

There is more than one kind of lop... Nevertheless pulling their arm out can certainly set up an arm drag.. How can it not?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3o6QjvRQ2U

[Knifefighter]

I am about to start billing you for all the free martial arts information that I give you. A pretty standard tacit used in mma is to use an undertook on one side of the opponents body and to pull down the opponent's other hand with a lop sao. From that position a variety of offensive activities can occur. Lop saos occur all the time to move peoples hands out of the way for strikes both in the ground and in the clinch.

LOL... please point to a clip showing this common example of a lop sao.

[YungChun]

Not with grabs that don't work... again, you will never see a lap sao in grappling.

Any time you grab in Chun it is a lop... And as I said, there is more than one kind of grab..

Grapplers I know certainly grab arms... And when your arm is grabbed you can re-grab theirs as a counter..

[Ultimatewingchun]

I am about to start billing you for all the free martial arts information that I give you. A pretty standard tacit used in mma is to use an undertook on one side of the opponents body and to pull down the opponent's other hand with a lop sao. From that position a variety of offensive activities can occur. Lop saos occur all the time to move peoples hands out of the way for strikes both in the ground and in the clinch.

***THIS IS TRUE.

Now if Dale Frank refuses to pay your bill, the least he can do is make a donation to your favorite charity.

[HumbleWCGuy]

LOL... please point to a clip showing this common example of a lop sao.

Apparently, you don't know what a lop sao. I can't even believe that this is a discussion topic. Define a lop sao for us so that we can get a good chuckle.

[Knifefighter]

There is more than one kind of lop... Nevertheless pulling their arm out can certainly set up an arm drag.. How can it not?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3o6QjvRQ2U

THAT is what you are considering a lap sao? That works fine. However, there's something wrong with a system that has one set of techniques that works and another that doesn't work, meanwhile naming them all the same.

Maybe WC needs to have two sets of naming protocols with different prefixes:
doesn't work technique
and
works technique

[YungChun]

Another case for the lop is when the opponent's strike fires deeply into your arms/guard.. This is a natural conversion to a lop as his force is used to lop him...

[Knifefighter]

Apparently, you don't know what a lop sao. I can't even believe that this is a discussion topic. Define a lop sao for us so that we can get a good chuckle.

Once again, showing what a dumb@ss you are.

Go back and read through the thread to the post where I reference a clip where Phil Redmond demonstrated a lop sao and I made it explicitly clear what I meant by lop sao.

You can't really be this stupid.

[JPinAZ]

Hmmm, here we go again...

Of course not. As I have repeatedly (as I am often reminded) said, WCK is controlling WHILE striking -- it is not, like some knuckleheads keep misrepresenting, standing grappling. It is pushing, pulling, pressing, lifting, sinking, etc. WHILE you strike. The striking is continually going on. But the objective is not just to strike, it is to keep hi structure broken so that we can continue to strike in safety.

But then, what about this?

WCK is to control the opponent while striking him.To control an opponent requires "grappling". Chi sao is "grappling". Lop sao is "grappling". Those drills teach you how to mix grappling (controlling) and striking.

Oh, and this one:

Chi sao is grappling with striking. Sustained contact is grappling.

Of course he'll have another weak, backtracking, lame a55 excuse for this contradiction as well..

[Ultimatewingchun]

About the vid that Dale Frank just posted:

THAT'S one way to enter into an arm drag - by starting with a lop sao. Yes...

And there are other ways to use lop sao.

Even Josh Barnett uses them (and labels them as such) on his vid "ATTACKING THE GUARD"...when on the ground and in someone's guard.

He learned it from Erik Paulson (who also appears in the vid).

And Josh also mentions chi sao as well.

Lop sao can be used in all three phases of fighting:

STAND-UP
CLINCH
GROUND