Democrat James Carville tells it like it is

[dimethylsea]

The bar may be low for this fool, but yet you still have to lower it for him to 'succeed'.

So in your book the national debt doesn't matter? What about the corruption with the Sestak and Romanoff job offers if they dropped out of races against Obama's chosen candidates? What about unempolyment? What about Obama lying when he said he would close Gitmo? Do any of those issues matter to you?

The national debt is going to explode under the GOP or the Demos.. because the GOP is the party of warfare and corporate corruption and the Demos are the party of social intervention and welfare.

Sestak and Romanoff is not corruption. It's just the way politics is done.

Do you SERIOUSLY expect me to give a flying f*cking f*ck about petty sh*t like that after 9 years of war?

Dude.. understand something.. Obama could literally be caught in bed with a midget and a tube of cake frosting screaming the name of Allah and it would NOT MATTER.

That's is how bad the GOP has messed up. I am a libertarian. I know ALL ABOUT the lesser of the two evils.

And now the Democratic party is exactly that. Profoundly flawed.. but possessed of one singular and omnipotent virtue.

They aren't Republicans.

[1bad65]

Bernie Sanders is far left. That's the first name that comes to mind.

Sanders is a Socialist, not a Democrat.

I should have been more specific; can you name a Democrat further left than Obama. And one besides Kucinich please. He is a Socialist, he just hasn't switched Parties yet from Democrat to Socialist.

[1bad65]

Sestak and Romanoff is not corruption. It's just the way politics is done.

It is corruption. Period. There are Federal Laws that ban this type of behavior.

And Obama actually promised open Government. So he lied, again. Does he now get a pass because he isn't forced by Federal laws to have an open Government? What happened to a man's word being enough?

Do you SERIOUSLY expect me to give a flying f*cking f*ck about petty sh*t like that after 9 years of war?

So you give ANOTHER pass to the Democrats.

Dude.. understand something.. Obama could literally be caught in bed with a midget and a tube of cake frosting screaming the name of Allah and it would NOT MATTER.

Correct. But I didn't mention that. I mentioned his outright lying to get elected. And you failed to address that.

That's is how bad the GOP has messed up. I am a libertarian. I know ALL ABOUT the lesser of the two evils.

So a Libertarian says the Party of Big Government is the lesser of two evils?? Give me a break. You're either lying about being a Libertarian, or you are ignorant of what the political Parties stand for.

Considering you are a Libertarian, I guess you voted for Ron Paul in 2008, right?

And now the Democratic party is exactly that. Profoundly flawed.. but possessed of one singular and omnipotent virtue.

They aren't Republicans.

Complete foolishness.

If you cant name ONE thing they stand for that you agree with them on, yet you continue to vote for them, that says alot about you.

I prefer the Republicans (out of the Big 2 Parties) but they are not the best one out there when you add in the smaller Parties out there. But I could darn sure come up with at least ONE plank on their platform that I agree with.

[dimethylsea]

It is corruption. Period. There are Federal Laws that ban this type of behavior.

It is NOT illegal. Offering someone a position BEFORE the election is NOT illegal.

So a Libertarian says the Party of Big Government is the lesser of two evils?? Give me a break. You're either lying about being a Libertarian, or you are ignorant of what the political Parties stand for.

Yes. The Democrats are the lesser evil. Understand this very clearly... the GOP is the party of war. It's really that simple.

The fundamental proposition of libertarian political philosophy is the NON-INITIATION OF FORCE.

Faced with the choice between a party that initiates force and kills innocents who have NO FRANCHISE in American elections, versus one that initiates economic and legal force against America's own citizens who DO have the franchise and the theoretical option to vote out the bastiches.. I choose the ones who are the lesser of the evils.

Libertarians reason from basic principles. Our foreign policy (war war war) is more often important than our domestic policy.

Why? Because the use of force against the innocent and uninvolved is much higher under a GOP regime.

Don't you f*cking dare tell me I should vote for murderers and facists because they LIE and say they are closer to the Libertarian point of view.

I choose the leftists because at least they aren't QUITE as likely to kill 50000 Iraqis.

A libertarian who picks 50000 dead people (who didn't vote) over 275 million people (who can vote) getting more government interference ...

Seriously dude.. how f*cking DARE you call me a hypocrite on this?

Why don't you start collecting Iraqi skulls and call them "Freedom Mugs"?

But hey.. it's ok to deficit spend out the yinyang for nukes and wars and crap if they promise you a tax cut and only violate the civil rights of the "hippies".

Thanks.. I'll take the Democrats. At least they aren't all constantly genuflecting to a god that never was.

If the Libertarian/Rothbardian/Mises POV is correct then the fiat currency WILL implode and Americans will get a very nasty lesson in economics. I am prepared for this to happen, but I will NOT NOT NOT NOT be a "fellow traveler" with those disgusting republicans.

I will turn in my citizenship in the US and starve on a beach in South America before I vote for those facists.

[1bad65]

It is NOT illegal. Offering someone a position BEFORE the election is NOT illegal.

You are wrong. It's a crime.

Read Federal Statutes 18 U.S.C. § 600 and 18 U.S.C. § 595.

Here is a link as well:
http://www.ethiopianreview.com/news/132575

Yes. The Democrats are the lesser evil. Understand this very clearly... the GOP is the party of war. It's really that simple.

Was LBJ a Republican?

And Obama said he would close Gitmo. He didn't. And despite his campaign promises, he is not leaving Iraq. Blaming solely the GOP is something only a partisan hack would do.

The fundamental proposition of libertarian political philosophy is the NON-INITIATION OF FORCE.

Can you show us a link to the Libertarian Party that says this?

Faced with the choice between a party that initiates force and kills innocents who have NO FRANCHISE in American elections, versus one that initiates economic and legal force against America's own citizens who DO have the franchise and the theoretical option to vote out the bastiches.. I choose the ones who are the lesser of the evils.

But voting for a Party that is going to bankrupt the country is ok?

Libertarians reason from basic principles. Our foreign policy (war war war) is more often important than our domestic policy.

Not when Obama's own guy (Bernanke) says the debt is unsustainable over the long term.

Why? Because the use of force against the innocent and uninvolved is much higher under a GOP regime.

Not during the Vietnam War.

Don't you f*cking dare tell me I should vote for murderers and facists because they LIE and say they are closer to the Libertarian point of view.

I did dare say it. And I'll say it again because it's true. No matter how you hate my words, they are true.

Do you even know what fascism is? If you did, you could not say the GOP are the fascists and still give the Democrats a pass when they are the ones nationalizing industries as quickly as they can. What does fascism say about nationalizing industries?

I choose the leftists because at least they aren't QUITE as likely to kill 50000 Iraqis.

I guess Vietnamese and Cambodians don't count.

Seriously dude.. how f*cking DARE you call me a hypocrite on this?

You're more of a useful idiot. My bad.

You're in effect cutting off your nose to spite your face. A true Libertarian could not vote for a Party that advocates big government, high taxes, Government run health care, nationalizing of businesses, bailouts, etc.

Why don't you start collecting Iraqi skulls and call them "Freedom Mugs"?

Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

But hey.. it's ok to deficit spend out the yinyang for nukes and wars and crap if they promise you a tax cut and only violate the civil rights of the "hippies".

WTF are you talking about?!?! Hippies?!?!

Thanks.. I'll take the Democrats. At least they aren't all constantly genuflecting to a god that never was.

They worship Government. Is that any better?

If the Libertarian/Rothbardian/Mises POV is correct then the fiat currency WILL implode and Americans will get a very nasty lesson in economics. I am prepared for this to happen, but I will NOT NOT NOT NOT be a "fellow traveler" with those disgusting republicans.

You'll look real good once you cut your entire nose off.

I will turn in my citizenship in the US and starve on a beach in South America before I vote for those facists.

Just leave now and save us the economic implosion part please.


I can't believe I'm arguing with a guy who WANTS our economy to implode. I want whats best for the country. You admittedly do not. That says alot.

[Drake]

We are withdrawing from Iraq right now...

[dimethylsea]

We are withdrawing from Iraq right now...

We shouldn't have gone there to begin with. I firmly believe this and will cast my ballot to that effect (voting against the party primarily responsible for the horror) for decades.

[Drake]

We shouldn't have gone there to begin with. I firmly believe this and will cast my ballot to that effect (voting against the party primarily responsible for the horror) for decades.

I agree. The invasion was premature, and we really needed the force in Afghanistan instead. We'd be done by now had we done the right thing. Instead, we have another year in Afghanistan, with several more spent as "advise and assist" unit deployments.

[dimethylsea]

Was LBJ a Republican?

I'm not concerned with what happened in Nam. I'm concerned with what has happened in my own adult lifetime. Otherwise I'd be voting Republican cause it's the party of Abraham Lincoln.

And Obama said he would close Gitmo. He didn't. And despite his campaign promises, he is not leaving Iraq. Blaming solely the GOP is something only a partisan hack would do.

Blaming the GOP, when the GOP has fought tooth and nail to keep Gitmo, to keep us in Iraq, is the only rational response.

Can you show us a link to the Libertarian Party that says this?

Link to a party? Read von Mises or Rothbard. I'm not doing your homework for you. Non-intiation of force is the fundamental principle of libertarian thought. If you don't buy this then we really aren't on the same page talking about Libertarian though. So discussion over on that point.

But voting for a Party that is going to bankrupt the country is ok?

It's not "OK" but it's less distasteful than voting for a Party with the blood of thousands on their hands during a time when I was an adult member of the electorate. My responsibility is to vote for a government that kills as few people (the ultimate violation of a human's liberty) as possible.

Not during the Vietnam War.

I wasn't voting then. I am now though.

Do you even know what fascism is? If you did, you could not say the GOP are the fascists and still give the Democrats a pass when they are the ones nationalizing industries as quickly as they can. What does fascism say about nationalizing industries?

Fascism is militaristic. That's the GOP. Facism builds bombs and guns and the force projection tools of the state. That's the GOP.
Fascism hates the "other" and violates their civil rights based on their religious beliefs or ethnicity. This is the GOP.

I guess Vietnamese and Cambodians don't count.

Not in my adult lifetime and not on my tax dollar no, cause they haven't been carpet-bombed. The Iraqis on the other hand...

You're in effect cutting off your nose to spite your face. A true Libertarian could not vote for a Party that advocates big government, high taxes, Government run health care, nationalizing of businesses, bailouts, etc.

Sure they might. If the alternative was to vote for Big Government (for war), deficit spending on wars (instead of paying for them with high taxes.. ), health care made artificially costly by government regulation and corporate influence in the halls of governance to guarantee their monopolies, the crypto-nationalization of vast sectors of the economy (the military-industrial complex) and ...

let's not forget tens of thousands of corpses all over Mesopotamia.

It's like choosing nerve gas vs. the bubonic plague. If I have atropine handy I might take my chances with the nerve gas.

WTF are you talking about?!?! Hippies?!?!

The Drug war dude. The GOP puts my bros in a cage.

They worship Government. Is that any better?

Sure worshiping government is better than worshipping a God. Give me a godless liberal instead of a fundamentalist christian "tea party" member any day.
I can reason with the godless liberal.

Just leave now and save us the economic implosion part please.

Ah yes. I was wondering when you were going to employ the standard neo-conservative "Love It or Leave It!" line. Disgusting but pretty par for the course with you.

I can't believe I'm arguing with a guy who WANTS our economy to implode. I want whats best for the country. You admittedly do not. That says alot.

An economic implosion precipitated by a collapse of the fiat currency would be excellent empirical evidence to the American populace that we need hard currency and sound finance.

If running the risk of that is the price we pay for not lending our votes, money and honor to the war-pigs then so be it.

Nobody said the liberals were right. They are just not as psychotic and deluded as the GOP.

[1bad65]

No more replying in sections, it's gotten too big.

The Libertarian Party does not agree with what you said, that's why you won't source them. Don't play games by saying 'you wont do my work for me'. The Libertarian Party has a website, I already checked it. Nowhere does it say "The fundamental proposition of libertarian political philosophy is the NON-INITIATION OF FORCE.", so stop trying to put words in their mouths.

Fascism is not just being militaristic. Educate yourself on this topic before comparing Parties to it. Nationalizing industry is a HUGE part of their philosophy. And Obama is in lock step with the Fascists on this issue whether you like it or not. Also, look at South Carolina, where the Democrats are trying to circumvent the will of the people as expressed in an election.

And why choose bankruptcy? A person with true beliefs would not compromise them by NEVER voting for their true beliefs, which is what you admit you do. At least I vote for the best candidate of my choice in the primaries, then in the general election I vote for the lesser of two evils if my choice did not win the primary.

Last I checked, it's not just the GOP who puts people in jail for drugs. The only Party I know of calling for legalization of drugs is the Libertarian Party, who you admit you do not vote for.

Not gonna argue religion, but putting trust in Government is pure foolishness. Government never made anyone great, successful, etc.

I never said "Love it or leave it". Of course you liberals love to tell people what we REALLY said, what we REALLY mean, how we are REALLY racist, etc. Do us all a favor, debate what I say, not what you say I said. My point was that if you are going to vote to destroy the country and then leave it (which you said you doing in order to see our economy "implode"), I'd prefer you either left now or stopped voting.

I do agree with this part, however:

An economic implosion precipitated by a collapse of the fiat currency would be excellent empirical evidence to the American populace that we need hard currency and sound finance.

[1bad65]

And I'm still waiting for you to give me an example of a Democrat further 'left' than Obama. And not Comrade Kucinich, please.

[1bad65]

The Drug war dude. The GOP puts my bros in a cage.

But the Democrats put them in cages as well AND they advocate stealing their property on top of that!

"Concerned about the the broad effect of federal forfeiture laws, Henry Hyde (R-Ill., House Judiciary Committee Chairman) and John Conyers (D-Mich., the senior Democrat on the Committee) teamed up to introduce the Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act in a rare display of bipartisan unity. The Representatives were concerned about the problem of police using seized property or funds to finance their own operations. As Bob Barr (R-Ga.) put it, "In many jurisdictions, it has become a monetary tail wagging the law enforcement dog." Testifying before the Judiciary Committee, Willie Jones of Nashville, TN, gave an example of this abuse. Engaged in the landscaping business, Mr. Jones planned to buy a shrubbery in Houston, TX. Nurseries prefer cash from out-of-town buyers, so Mr. Jones planned to go there with $9,000 in cash. Officers detained him at the airport: suspicious of the large amount of cash, they accused him of being involved in drug-related activities. They eventually let him go, but they kept the money, and refused to even give him a receipt for it. Because he did not have 10% of the money seized to put up as a bond, he could not afford to challenge the seizure in the usual way. Disturbed by this and other similar stories of excess, the House members voted to approve H.R. 1658 to curb this abuse. The Clinton administration said that the bill would have a negative impact on the war on drugs. The House soundly rejected an administration-favored alternative, however -- supporters of H.R. 1658 said the alternative bill would expand the federal power, not narrow it."

Source:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/background/forfeiture/

So we have ultra-conservative Bob Barr on the same side you claim to be on, and Bill Clinton on the other side. And yet you side with Clinton's Party on this?