Wing Tsun Re-Evolution?

[Simon Morris]

Not usually a big WT fan, but this guy (Victor Guitterez) is growing on me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMW3o69t9LQ
I do believe he has now left the EWTO and is re-calibrating his training to be more resistance based.
The DVD series WT Re-Evolution ( at Amazon) is refreshing and very robust.

Any views, anyone trained with him personally?
Simon

[sanjuro_ronin]

Not one second of actual fighting...that doesn't look good.

[Knifefighter]

Just a new take on the same old unrealistic cr@p.

[tigershorty]

that guy sure likes his elbows. can't really watch videos where 2 partners are in agreement with the end result before they even attack.


at best, that scenario can be used to teach, but not show real skill.

[taojkd]

Bad muay thai clinch work? Well, to be fair, he IS show how to do it out of chi sao.





*just kidding*

[punchdrunk]

most demos don't show much resistance, but that clip doesn't show any at all. How is his training more resistance based? Any other clips or articles about that? If he does that would be interesting.

[Simon Morris]

Hello Guys.

I do believe the 'new' resistance approach is geared towards non-WT strikes and centred on a more aggressive boxing/MMA strike pattern. Victor appears to be saying in the DVD's that WT needs to get away from being an antidote to itself, and focus more on a check + strike response to deal with heavy hitters?

I appreciate that some of you are of the opinion that here is more WT self indulgent demos, personally I like the flow and violence seen in this clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzwbsUSkmkI

Simon

[YungChun]

This was new like 20 years ago...

I don't know if Victor G. still trains folks the same way but his ChiSao used to be turn crazy, constantly turning.. While his ChiSao is a little nutty I think there are some parts of their WT that may be useful... But it's the same old stuff....

Without going into lots of details.. My experience is that Chun needs to simplify--improve the understanding and use of the core tools, cut the techniques down to a handful and sharpen what's left...

Train realistically with good mechanics and focus on Chun's true strong points in training and then take it into the ring.. All the BS folks put out there ends up circumventing the basic core of the art and actually refining it in combat.

I would recommend Alan's stuff over this any day and absorb what is useful..

[Simon Morris]

Hi Yung Chun.

Some very true points there.
What clicks my switch about Victor is his constant offensive emphasis.
When you talk about simplicity, please highlight 3 major points that you would implement, specific to combat.

Simon

[YungChun]

Hi Yung Chun.

Some very true points there.
What clicks my switch about Victor is his constant offensive emphasis.
When you talk about simplicity, please highlight 3 major points that you would implement, specific to combat.

Simon

I'm all for offense..

I think I did mention 3 points..

Good mechanics..good horse.

Technique reduction..

Realistic training/application..


An emphasis on power, release of power...how to do that...

A short list of hand techniques...for use in entry and inside..

More incorporation of the legs for constant harassment and attack..

Realistic and focused training on core weapons and tactics..

(the basic punches should be honed to a fine edge (they rarely are)--the kicks as well--just like MT works those kicks/strikes over and over and over, etc)

I don't care what anyone says: Good Chun strikes should be scary powerful.

And I think many of the classical drills are vital when done right.

It's simply taking the core of the art, the higher % elements and working them over and over and under pressure--yes, fight good fighters....

I think Alan's stuff covers a lot of good elements (just addressing the chun aspects).. I don't agree with maybe 5-10% of where he goes but, with most (not all) other folk's video stuff is just useless to anyone above beginner level..

[Simon Morris]

Thank you Yung Chun, respect your approach and methodology.

My training has always focused on:
* Attitude.
* Conditioning.
* Skills.
* Tactics.

In parallel with Muay Thai, incorporate padwork and sparring into every session.
Keep to the Primary Strategy: Disrupt and Destroy the opponent at all opportunities.

Cheers
Simon.

p.s. I'm unsure of who Alan is, please help?

[YungChun]

Thank you Yung Chun, respect your approach and methodology.

My training has always focused on:
* Attitude.
* Conditioning.
* Skills.
* Tactics.

In parallel with Muay Thai, incorporate padwork and sparring into every session.
Keep to the Primary Strategy: Disrupt and Destroy the opponent at all opportunities.

Cheers
Simon.

p.s. I'm unsure of who Alan is, please help?

Alan Orr has some videos...
http://www.alanorr.com/htdocs/produc...oductlist.html

[Knifefighter]

Hello Guys.

I do believe the 'new' resistance approach is geared towards non-WT strikes and centred on a more aggressive boxing/MMA strike pattern. Victor appears to be saying in the DVD's that WT needs to get away from being an antidote to itself, and focus more on a check + strike response to deal with heavy hitters?

I appreciate that some of you are of the opinion that here is more WT self indulgent demos, personally I like the flow and violence seen in this clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzwbsUSkmkI

Simon

LOL @ those arm strikes dealing with heavy hitters. Heavy hitters will walk right through the junk shown in that clip.

Mostly theoretical non-fighting fantasy shown there.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Hello Guys.

I do believe the 'new' resistance approach is geared towards non-WT strikes and centred on a more aggressive boxing/MMA strike pattern. Victor appears to be saying in the DVD's that WT needs to get away from being an antidote to itself, and focus more on a check + strike response to deal with heavy hitters?

I appreciate that some of you are of the opinion that here is more WT self indulgent demos, personally I like the flow and violence seen in this clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzwbsUSkmkI

Simon

That sucked, sorry.
Look, demos are for demoing what a system is, its a show and tell scenario.
The thing is, doing that way give the impression of "real fighting" and that is NOT the case.
The attacker does some half-assed attack that most of the time, the defender knows, and then the defender counters with force and intent, and the contrast we see from the half-assed attack and the purposeful counters gives us the illusion of skill and power and effectivness.
This is wrong.

The only way to show how a system works under pressure is to show it in a full contact environment, period.

[Simon Morris]

Hello Mr Ronin and Knifefighter.
I fully understand your points on demos and their flimsy 'non real' content.
The area I like from the clip is some nice slashing with elbows and fists.

Please with both of your knowledge and full contact experience could you point me at some:
'The only way to show how a system works under pressure is to show it in a full contact environment, period'.

*and some*

'LOL @ those arm strikes dealing with heavy hitters. Heavy hitters will walk right through the junk shown in that clip'.

Thank you.
Simon