Wing Tsun Re-Evolution?

[Knifefighter]

Of course I know he worked a leg technique to get the trap.

And I also know exactly why the opportunity to work the leg technique was there:

the heavy ride and the punches took their toll on Royce.

Gee, who are we going to believe, Dale...You, or our lyin' eyes ???!!!

LOL @ Victor trying to pretend he is not clueless... he got the punches BECAUSE of the tactic.

[Knifefighter]

so are you saying that bjj has no defence for that or royce didn't know it.

Techniques and tactics are constantly evolving... Royce, at the time, had no answer to that tech. I'm sure he, as well as anyone else who understands how to figure out counters to newly introduced methods has now worked out at least one or two the counters to that particular tactic.

[Wayfaring]

so are you saying that bjj has no defence for that or royce didn't know it.

IMO what you know and what you can apply on a given night can be two different things.

That's why I would tend to take in consideration Royce's own opinion on that fight where he stated "I didn't show up that night".

As opposed to thinking that he didn't know how to or hadn't experienced escapes while being under side control with an arm pinned. That is not all that uncommon a position.

[SAAMAG]

That's the thing about competing; you might have trained hard and know your ****, but sometimes you're just off the day of the event.

[bennyvt]

I thought hughes was just better then royce. You can make many excuses but sometimes the better man wins.

[grasshopper 2.0]

Not usually a big WT fan, but this guy (Victor Guitterez) is growing on me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMW3o69t9LQ
I do believe he has now left the EWTO and is re-calibrating his training to be more resistance based.
The DVD series WT Re-Evolution ( at Amazon) is refreshing and very robust.

Any views, anyone trained with him personally?
Simon

I don't really know too much about the idea behind "re-evolution" but just a quick note (if we can just step aside from the whole demo vs. free fighting on video argument for a second) - i've not trained with Victor at all, but i sure would want to,

If you look at his drills, he trains with high intensity and encourages his students to do that too. I think that's a good thing, especially where in some wing chun schools including WT, that it's too soft or technical of an approach.

Another thing - some of the stuff may look like the partner is cooperating, and i'm sure there's a mutual understanding of this, but (although you can't tell from a clip), the nature of the hits due the wing chun way of hitting, HURTS and disrupts your axis - it's not apparent in many cases, and it just looks like the partner "gives up" but he 'gives up" because he feels the shock of the technique or whatever and knows there's really no point fighting it..otherwise Victor just gets hit more and more..

Some people do resist the attack (usually the newbies, bigger guys or full contact fighter guys), but that just makes the Sifu increase the intensity even more..after a few hits, what's the point of resisting anymore? the pain kicks in...or you get a good chop on the neck and have learned your lesson.. and they just decide to co-operate some more.

Given Victor's association with WT for so long regardless of how they re-package the same stuff over and over again, i like what i see from him and think it'd be cool train with him.

I like how he introduces a degree of realism of the attacker and forcing the wing chun guy to use his body to really put weight behind the hits. I think this is all good stuff!

[Ultimatewingchun]

He's not talking about me ...

[Wayfaring]

He's not talking about me ...

Aw, come on now, Victor. Are you telling me it's not you in the Lone Ranger mask at 1:58 here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyPMkkpxWn8

[Ultimatewingchun]

Jeez, my secret is out.

[t_niehoff]

LOL @ Victor trying to pretend he is not clueless... he got the punches BECAUSE of the tactic.

Dale, I'm shocked that you, a BJJ black belt with over 30 years of competitive grappling experience, a person who has fought amateur and pro MMA (using grappling skills), and as someone who trains with very good grapplers and MMA fighters would have the temerity to suggest that someone whose grappling credentials are limited to watching bad Catch videos and rolling a bit with his untrained students is "clueless".

[Frost]

Dale, I'm shocked that you, a BJJ black belt with over 30 years of competitive grappling experience, a person who has fought amateur and pro MMA (using grappling skills), and as someone who trains with very good grapplers and MMA fighters would have the temerity to suggest that someone whose grappling credentials are limited to watching bad Catch videos and rolling a bit with his untrained students is "clueless".

LMAO
don't want to get into an arguement about catch again but BJJ has just as much pinning as any style, as Dale said it depends on the game you play, i once saw matt thorton put a BJJ brown belt to sleep at a seminar from a side control that was so tight the guy could not breath. Some guys have a fast loose game and some a tight hard pinning style, you need both to be really good and anyone that has actually competed knows this

[IRONMONK]

This is better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ja0XpVZl7Xs