Question about sparring

[KC Elbows]

Dave's not here, man.

[MightyB]

These are the Dave's I know I Know
These are the Dave's I know...

http://www.milkandcookies.com/link/45277/detail/

[David Jamieson]

♫♪But we come from different mom's♫♪

[RenDaHai]

I think this thread is actually a really good question in principle. I have seen many kung fu schools where peoples technical skills are good, but then they strap up and they literally just use kickboxing, even when they have never really trained any.

Obviously this is instantly flawed. As soon as they throw any a boxing style attack, if it is palmed and countered, then the attacker is in a bad situation. Because from their current position none of their kung fu guarding techniques will work because they have already violated their principles by throwing that style of punch in the first place. The only way for them to defend themselves is by using a boxing style defense, which of course they are woefully under practiced in. So why do they use the Boxing style attack in the first place?

I think it is because kung fu tends to have less attacking strategies and more in defense.

The situation of the ring is very bizarre. Because you are forced into attacking frequently.

In all the real dangerous fights I have experienced (been in or watched) there has always been a clear cut attacker and defender. And it always starts from an unexpected position, as in never from two guys bouncing around on their toes squaring up. Those are the fights that can be avoided. The nasty ones tend to start from someone getting hit unexpectedly.

Anyway there is always someone relentlessly attacking. This doesn't happen in ring fights, if someone is defended they will retreat momentarily and rethink their strategy. In actual combat this doesn't happen. If their attack failed they (the attacker) tends to attack again and again. Its these situations where kung fu technique becomes more useful. But in the unnatural situation of bouncing around in a ring being forced to attack kung fu fast becomes less useful than more kickboxing like styles.

I think this is why kung fu finds it hard to find a place in modern style matches. Because it is simply not designed for this type of situation.

So I think kung fu sparring is best done from contact, like beginning with your hands crossed. If you made people do this I will bet they will use much more kung fu technique than if forced to bounce around facing each other.

[pazman]

I am Dave.

[Scott R. Brown]

Bawang (dave) do you know how i know you're gay? LOL

Cuz you live in S.F. and you are surrounded by them?

you do know that bawang and Dave are not the same person, right? (I've communicated off forum w/bawang via e-mail, he's in Toronto)
it's just one of HW108's running commentaries where he keeps making that claim;

There you go with your wild, conspiratory and imaginary, "They live in two different countries!", theories again!

I suppose just because I have an e-mail address in Australia, one is Transylvania and one in Iceland, I am NOT outside your house right now watching you floss your teeth?

He is as much Dave as I am, or you are or Frank is.
Then again....

I AM DAVE......


AND SO IS MY WIFE.........




.....THE STARSHIP ENTERPRISE

[TenTigers]

I think it is because kung fu tends to have less attacking strategies and more in defense.

The situation of the ring is very bizarre. Because you are forced into attacking frequently.

In all the real dangerous fights I have experienced (been in or watched) there has always been a clear cut attacker and defender.
I think this is why kung fu finds it hard to find a place in modern style matches. Because it is simply not designed for this type of situation.

Hmmm, sorry but I really can't agree with that statement. The Kung-Fu styles that I've been exposed to, Hung-Ga,Choy Li Fut, Wing Chun, Bak Mei, Southern Mantis, Northern Shaolin, are all extremely aggressive, attack oriented, and relentless.
I don't know anyone who has ever won a fight by being defensive.
Which Kung-Fu styles were you referring to?

[RenDaHai]

@TenTigers , Most kung fu styles are Certainly aggressive, and relentless

However what I am referring to is that in my experience kung fu techniques tend to like to 'bridge' before attacking. As in there are not so many attacks that straight away attack a person whose guard is up, usually some sort of capture, bridge, contact is initiated before the attack, whatever it is. This is a defensive attacking strategy, its not like charging the opponent with strikes.

This is not so easy to do in a situation like a ring fight. Often you are forced into throwing many 'testing' attacks before you can land something good, where as in the classic kung fu match sparring is more decisive since parrying and capturing can be that bit more technical. So when full contact sparring with gloves in a large arena people tend to adopt kickboxing like styles because a lot of kungfu strategy is not designed for such a situation.

Of course all kung fu contains the same standard repertoire of punches and kicks but in the ring situation you are forced to use them in a different way than you would in more Kung fu oriented sparring, or in reality.

[David Jamieson]

sparring = measured responses in a learning environment.

fighting = not that

lol.

My rule is this personally.

If you find yourself in a physical conflict with someone who is not a trained fighter, enter fast and dominate quickly, be hard, be relentless. But, have mercy (don't kill the guy, maul him)

If you find yourself in a physical conflict with someone who is apparently trained, use your own training to the best of your ability.

I think we need to recognize that in kungfu, the shapes are gross and adaptable. Long arm can shorten. Arcs can be wide or narrow, forces can be hard or withdrawn somewhat and so on. The quickest most efficient attacks are virtually always the simplest ones.

Movies have spoiled the minds of some people in what they regard as fighting obviously. If you think you can fight while spending energy that is not used in attacking or defending, then you probably believe that it really is Britney Spears singing at her concerts while she dances around. (Everyone in the business knows that you cannot effectively sing while vigorously dancing and therefore the entire show is a lip-sync and all big stars do it to the last.

[MightyB]

@TenTigers , Most kung fu styles are Certainly aggressive, and relentless

However what I am referring to is that in my experience kung fu techniques tend to like to 'bridge' before attacking. As in there are not so many attacks that straight away attack a person whose guard is up, usually some sort of capture, bridge, contact is initiated before the attack, whatever it is. This is a defensive attacking strategy, its not like charging the opponent with strikes.

This is not so easy to do in a situation like a ring fight. Often you are forced into throwing many 'testing' attacks before you can land something good, where as in the classic kung fu match sparring is more decisive since parrying and capturing can be that bit more technical. So when full contact sparring with gloves in a large arena people tend to adopt kickboxing like styles because a lot of kungfu strategy is not designed for such a situation.

Of course all kung fu contains the same standard repertoire of punches and kicks but in the ring situation you are forced to use them in a different way than you would in more Kung fu oriented sparring, or in reality.

I know exactly what you're talking about. The problem is also intensified by a reactive drilling philosophy that I find in a lot of TCMA. That's where you have a person punch or kick or whatever and then train with the emphasis on the kung fu counter. Eventually students develop a fear of attacking because it's constantly drilled that way.

[hskwarrior]

Originally Posted by : Scott R. Brown

Cuz you live in S.F. and you are surrounded by them?

Try again. but chec this, i wouldn't be surprised if you had more in your town than i have in mine.

[Scott R. Brown]

Try again. but chec this, i wouldn't be surprised if you had more in your town than i have in mine.

LOL!!! You have more in one block than there are people in my whole town!!

[hskwarrior]

LOL!!! You have more in one block than there are people in my whole town!!

and wouldn't you be shocked if everyone in your town were Fudgepackers!!!!!

[Scott R. Brown]

and wouldn't you be shocked if everyone in your town were Fudgepackers!!!!!

It wouldn't bother me in the least as long as they leave me out of it!

[hskwarrior]

Now thats what im saying. go 'head be gay....just don't let me see it. hahaha