What is important to your Wing Chun training routine?

[SAAMAG]

Sure.

I thought you wanted me to just re-order it in my explanation. I'd definitely get rid of the last two then if fighting was the goal (but there are people like myself who like learning the entire arts but just focus more on the first two).

I understand what you mean by the term complete. And that's true from that respect. Just depends on what one perceives as complete ya know?

Some people think complete is all areas of combat (like standup, grappling, throwing, etc), some think that complete is all areas of training (meaning like what you have there with interactive drills, training, forms, and culture).

It's all relative and that's why my response is just an opinion and not a definitive end.

[Sardinkahnikov]

FWIW Within what I practise, the equipment is used for drilling/conditioning but I guess you mean cardio-type training or warm up routines?

And the Qigong (Hei Gung) of course! Which can be included within the Form section to be honest.

Equipment? You mean the dummy, rings, etc?

Definitely. The warm up routine also contained lots of stretching exercises. Furthermore, there were also lots of bodyweight and abs exercises. Backbridges, hindu pushups, chin-ups and pull-ups were vehemently practiced, along with stance training. Crawling exercises were also common during training sessions.

I agree with your comment regarding form training. Isn't saam bai fut (the 2nd section of SNT) also a form of qi gong?

[LoneTiger108]

It's all relative and that's why my response is just an opinion and not a definitive end.

I agree.

Equipment? You mean the dummy, rings, etc?

Yes. I use these equipment tools to drill specifics.

Definitely. The warm up routine also contained lots of stretching exercises. Furthermore, there were also lots of bodyweight and abs exercises. Backbridges, hindu pushups, chin-ups and pull-ups were vehemently practiced, along with stance training. Crawling exercises were also common during training sessions.

I like to hear of peoples personal input, especially considering the fact that I do the same within my own warm up routines. I think from a discussion had here before it seems that most guys have a distinctive way to warm up, and in all fairness, I do think this actually has an impact of the Wing Chun you then pass on.

It would be so great to create a Universal Wing Chun Warm Up that everybody can promote regardless of family or heritage.

I agree with your comment regarding form training. Isn't saam bai fut (the 2nd section of SNT) also a form of qi gong?

Here's where the differences can be noticed! IMHO ALL the forms carry their own heigung signatures, so yes the saam bai fut is a form of heigung. But for me, the saam bai fut is also the 1st set! (Although we never called it that) Everything that comes before it are mere signatures from Ip Man or previous Masters. My opinion of course! But something that was taught to me too by my Sifu and it made sense then and still does today!

[Graham H]

but with all respect I wouldn't bother to coach weaponry or literature to a fighter unless they intended to coach in their later years.

Weaponry is an integeral part of the system. Without the correct training of the long pole and knives you are missing so much. The abilty to use Ving Tsun in empty hand fighting is increased by training the weapons.

As for the Kuen Kuit its ok to read at bedtime because it brings on a very deep sleep.!!!!

GH

[LoneTiger108]

Weaponry is an integeral part of the system. Without the correct training of the long pole and knives you are missing so much. The abilty to use Ving Tsun in empty hand fighting is increased by training the weapons.

I agree but still wouldn't teach people who were not interested in teaching. We have stick and ring (Equipment) that I do teach though.

With the anti-knife crime policies in the UK it's hard to justify our choppers!

As for the Kuen Kuit its ok to read at bedtime because it brings on a very deep sleep.!!!!

As it probably does to most! Literature as a whole though is important to me as it was the way we learnt curriculums.

[Graham H]

I agree but still wouldn't teach people who were not interested in teaching. We have stick and ring (Equipment) that I do teach though.

I don't understand your way of thinking.........Regardless of whether one wants to teach or not the weapons HAVE to be taught. For instance the long long pole increases punching power and precision and also improves our footwork. The knives increase our awareness and agression needed to for the fight and footwork as well.
IMO it is wrong to segregate any of the forms. From SLT-BJD and all the drills inbetween are part of the whole. I practice WSLVT as it is being taught to me by Philipp Bayer. The syatem WSL taught to Philipp was taught to WSL by Ip Man. Unless one of these guys reinvented the wheel (which they haven't) why should your ideas be different to mine............unless, of course, you aren't teaching/practicing Ip Man Ving Tsun.
I know there have been very subtle changes in teaching methods through the years but the fundamental thinking should remain the same should it not????????

GH

[Graham H]

............................otherwise it is no longer Ving Tsun!!!!!!!

[LoneTiger108]

I don't understand your way of thinking.........

And you're not the first!

Regardless of whether one wants to teach or not the weapons HAVE to be taught.

I disagree. As I have said, we use equipment (sticks & rings) to coach what you would call weaponry forms and they do a good enough job preparing students for the weaponry, if they decide they want to learn to teach.

I guess I'm more concerned about students menatlity with knives more so than the pole to be honest. That sort of training is definitelty not for everyone IMHO.

For instance the long long pole increases punching power and precision and also improves our footwork. The knives increase our awareness and agression needed to for the fight and footwork as well.
IMO it is wrong to segregate any of the forms. From SLT-BJD and all the drills inbetween are part of the whole.

I agree with what you're saying, but still choose to coach the way I want to. FWIW The weaponry forms were actually taught to very few of Ip Mans students and from what I have seen everyones forms vary because of this. Nobody knows what Ip Man taught.

I practice WSLVT as it is being taught to me by Philipp Bayer. The syatem WSL taught to Philipp was taught to WSL by Ip Man. Unless one of these guys reinvented the wheel (which they haven't) why should your ideas be different to mine............unless, of course, you aren't teaching/practicing Ip Man Ving Tsun.
I know there have been very subtle changes in teaching methods through the years but the fundamental thinking should remain the same should it not????????

I know who taught you Graham, you've said before. I have no problem with Wing Chun being taught the 'same' as this person or that, but I also believe that you shouldn't box yourself to be a carbon copy of your Sifu. I was not taught like that.

I agree that the basic curriculum of all Wing Chun is very similar, especially within the Ip Family, but that's all it is. A curriculum. An image of forms and basic interactions.

Show me a clip of Ip Man doing the whole pole form, or knife form. It just can't be done as it was something that was not meant for mass consumption. His students were lucky to have even seen the pole or knives and whatever they did catch was minimal. This does include WSL as far as I know, and even my own Sigung Lee Shing. All we can do as students and keepers of the art is to take it further by promoting it well, presenting it with pride and preserving it with honour.

I think if we could all do that Ip Man, and all the other Wing Chun ancestors, would be happy!

[wtxs]

With the anti-knife crime policies in the UK it's hard to justify our choppers! .

Brother, we yanks feels your pain! First they take away your fire arms so you can't defend yourself and love ones, and now anti-knife? So what's next? The so called TACTICAL pen?

[LoneTiger108]

Brother, we yanks feels your pain! First they take away your fire arms so you can't defend yourself and love ones, and now anti-knife? So what's next? The so called TACTICAL pen?

Something like that has already happened in the UK dude! The KUBOTAN is on the list of banned 'weapons'...

[Graham H]

Spencer

You are correct. We shouldn't really get bogged down in what Ip Man taught or what he didn't... Maybe that goes for WSL as well. What is important is that what we are practicing makes sense to US and we are happy with that. Everybody is different right?

GH

[LoneTiger108]

Spencer

You are correct. We shouldn't really get bogged down in what Ip Man taught or what he didn't... Maybe that goes for WSL as well. What is important is that what we are practicing makes sense to US and we are happy with that.

Thanks. I only wish there were more people in OUR whole family who could see this. Wing Chun is a growing art and with growth comes change imho.

Everybody is different right?

My point exactly, especially when you look at our own personal physical make up. Even moreso these days too as there are fewer 'blind' students like there may have been back in the seventies and eighties! Information is everything so we have all developed with the times. It's actually finding the similarities that is getting harder IMHO. Nowadays, the only similarity is in Ip Mans name being attached to most of us!!!

One reason for this thread was to see if the majority could agree that EVERYTHING I mention here IS Wing Chun. And I haven't had anyone respond with MORE (yet!)

The reality is not about this bong or that bong, chisau like this or like that, rattan rings or not, it's about your overall approach and training. If you can see similarities to ALL the generalized subjects I put forward here, then you ARE doing a comprehensive and complete 'version' of Wing Chun.

IMHO of course!