40 Year Old Tai Chi Boxer vs Monster Brawler

[KC Elbows]

Sounds to me like the fact that you tripped and he got disqualified for hitting you while you were down means that you more than likely would have been put in the hospital were this a real self-defense situation.

Glad you provided the perfect example of someone who "respects" those who enter the ring in a lopsided fashion, lauding those who do so from your perspective of what arts one should focus on despite their shortcomings vs. treatment of those working styles that don't fall into your approved list.

I've seen you comment on enough fights over the years to say that, while you advise those from the styles you like, you do the above for the rest.

[KC Elbows]

IF I train in a system that is NOT KNOW for its fighting ability and I do NOT do well or even if I DO well, I should be question as to how much THAT system effected my performance.

To reiterate, no you don't. I'm pretty sure that when you were training for fights, refining your techs and training for the fights held a much higher position than explaining to other what you're doing. And it always should.

If I make some claim about what I'm doing, then I should answer for it.

If I simply use what I'm doing, it's my business.

To put this in scientific terms, one does not have their initial idea peer reviewed, one has the end research, after much USEFUL data is collected in a lab environment that they feel supports their conclusion, peer reviewed. Criticism of attempts by gongfu people to apply their style seems to start before they've even done it, evidence is used of people who never pressure tested much to suggest that the style is inferior to styles where people did(training methodology does not equal style, it informs it, but the style exists separate from the methodology in the context of fighting), evidence of full contact cma is ignored when, between sanshou and certain esteemed(largely internal style) teams, there is sufficient positive evidence.

Here's how this would go if this approach were used in science:

Einstein: You know, I'm suspecting something about the nature of time and space.

Knifefighter: Silly theoretician! Everything was defined years ago, if your idea was worth anything, someone obviously would have found it. LARPER!

Einstein: Um, I haven't even collected the data yet, what's with the sand in your *****?

Knifefighter: Why bother collecting data, why not just follow a real and established method? Stupid dummy!

Nameless Nutrider #1: Time and space! What a moron!

Nameless Nutrider #2: I know, you should hear his quaint theories on light!

Einstein: I'm gonna go work in the lab, have fun.

[Knifefighter]

Glad you provided the perfect example of someone who "respects" those who enter the ring in a lopsided fashion, lauding those who do so from your perspective of what arts one should focus on despite their shortcomings vs. treatment of those working styles that don't fall into your approved list.

I've seen you comment on enough fights over the years to say that, while you advise those from the styles you like, you do the above for the rest.

LOL... if he says his goal is to evade and keep his opponent from damaging him, but then he tripped and fell and the opponent was able to hit him while he was down, he didn't really meet that goal, did he?

He gets my props for competing and testing himself. He gets no props for then saying his evasion skills were successful when he fell on his ass and his opponent struck him when he was down.

In scientific method terms, the null hypothesis was shown to be true, but he then attempted to rationalize a different conclusion.

[cerebus]

Sounds to me like the fact that you tripped and he got disqualified for hitting you while you were down means that you more than likely would have been put in the hospital were this a real self-defense situation.

Then it's lucky for me the streets don't have loose canvas covers over them. And is there a "real self-defense" rule that says I must stop fighting if I'm on the ground? I guess I hadn't heard about that...

[Knifefighter]

Then it's lucky for me the streets don't have loose canvas covers over them. And is there a "real self-defense" rule that says I must stop fighting if I'm on the ground? I guess I hadn't heard about that...

Last time I checked, "the street" often has more obstacles to trip over than does the ring.

Also, last time I heard, most standup fighters were going on about how you "never want to go to the ground" in the street.

But, hey, if your definition of successfully using you standup to avoid a guy means you trip and fall on your ass and he then strikes you when you are down, who am I to argue with you. You are welcome to your own definition, even though it's certainly wouldn't be mine.

[cerebus]

Also, last time I heard, most standup fighters were going on about how you "never want to go to the ground" in the street.

I'm impressed with how much strange thinking you were able to fit into that one phrase. How does "not wanting to go to the ground" have anything to do with continuing to fight while there? You seem to be saying that once someone is on the ground they must just stop fighting. That's an odd thing for anyone to say.

And you also seem to be trying to say that the ring having a loose cover which I tripped on is indicative of my lack of skill in my chosen martial art. Again you're making no sense. Even the best fighter can get messed up by a random outside factor such as an unseen obstacle, and I never claimed to be the best fighter ever. You don't seem to understand that I'm making no claims to invincibility. I simply did what I did and shared it with you.

[David Jamieson]

Cerebus, I think there's just a lot of trolling in knifefighter.

Seriously.

anyway, good for you for taking the risk, and it is a risk to full contact bang at your age, or my age, or over 40 in general.

you probably learned more about yourself in context to the art you study and I am thinking that was the point of the exercise?

[cerebus]

Cerebus, I think there's just a lot of trolling in knifefighter.

Seriously.

anyway, good for you for taking the risk, and it is a risk to full contact bang at your age, or my age, or over 40 in general.

you probably learned more about yourself in context to the art you study and I am thinking that was the point of the exercise?

Thanks. Good to see that at least a few people got the point.

[KC Elbows]

LOL... if he says his goal is to evade and keep his opponent from damaging him, but then he tripped and fell and the opponent was able to hit him while he was down, he didn't really meet that goal, did he?

He gets my props for competing and testing himself. He gets no props for then saying his evasion skills were successful when he fell on his ass and his opponent struck him when he was down.

In scientific method terms, the null hypothesis was shown to be true, but he then attempted to rationalize a different conclusion.

Here, let me translate to how you would do this for an mma guy:

Before you laud your evasion work, you need to recognize that you slipped in your footwork and ended up in a bad spot.

To which, I'm pretty sure Cerebus would say something like:

Good point.

BTW, I was kidding when I mischaracterized your conversations with Einstein. I am aware that, barring the horrible and debilitating effects of dementia, you likely remember your conversations with the man, and I would never normally disrespect an elder, you being on a fixed income and all.

On that topic, how is mma in Florida?

[taai gihk yahn]

I think that what one needs to do is to put this in context of asking how many times were u able to actively evade the other guy before u slipped and the match was ended? In other words, if u consciously evaded 25+ strikes before u lost ur footing, I think that constitues a relative sucess on terms of u achieving ur particular objective (idk how many u evaded successfully; any idea?); my sense is that u were trying to practice a specific thing here (evasion) and as such were not emphasiNg things like initiating an attack or countering after the evasion as much as u might have done if I were in a street fight; so again, what I got from ur initial post is that u were activle focusing on evasion and so to compare it to a street fight wid be a bit of a stretch if u were not looking to work initiations
and counters to the same degree; so I see it kinda like dAles video w rashun where he was working one specific set of skills and thus for the same reason to say that he was owned by rashun wouldn't make sense either

[cerebus]

I'm not sure exactly how many punches he threw (alot) but I do know roughly how many landed. 1 punch landed cleanly, and 2 or 3 landed glancingly or while I was moving away from the punch, the rest I either evaded entirely, deflected, or caught with a hand or forearm.

In contrast, having thrown almost as many punches overall, I missed maybe 3 or 4 with the remainder landing cleanly.

[cerebus]

The thing I find interesting is that people act kinda like a single punch by a standing opponent on a person who has tripped is some kind of deadly fight ender. When I was a Military Cop, we responded to bar fights on numerous occasions that lead to one of us landing on the floor, and sometimes getting punched or kicked while down. Guess what ended up happening? The person who fell got back up, and continued to break up the brawl.

One thing that the mind-set of people like "knifefighter" shows is that alot of the folks who post on internet forums (especially those who preach most loudly about "Well, if it was in the street...") have basically no REAL experience in the hypothetical situations they like to talk so much about...

[David Jamieson]

every fight is utterly different.