This is what happens when you pull guard

[jmd161]

i still dont see the difference, yes grappling has more techniques but the fundermental goal is the same, takedown and ground and pound or snap, now facing a skilled ground guy i might need all those different tecniques, but against someone clueless i can throw and kick the cr*p out of them, go knee on belly and punch the sh*t out of them or enter straight into a lock and break things, only one of the above calls for me to actually go to the ground with the guy and only for a moment so again i ask whats the fundermental differnece?

When I mentioned ground and pound in grappling knifefighter was quick to point out ground and pound is not grappling... so which is it?

it may be foolish but you might not have a choice, and again most MMA strikers would much rather finish a lock easily standing rather than have to learn the ground so why dont you think we see more locks on downed opponents with one guy standing and finishing the other guy?

Okay, are we still talking about chin na or are you asking why more standing locks aren't used?

[Frost]

When I mentioned ground and pound in grappling knifefighter was quick to point out ground and pound is not grappling... so which is it??

you use grappling to set up ground and pound, just like you use china to set up strikes....is that ok?

Okay, are we still talking about chin na or are you asking why more standing locks aren't used?

both, chin na involves standing locks and standing locks that lead to takedowns where the opponent stays standing and applys a lock or break to the opponent on the ground correct?

my question is why cant we see any evidence of this working....people are happy to demo it for clips and pictures but why cant we see it is use against an opponent looking to do you harm?

[m1k3]

When I mentioned ground and pound in grappling knifefighter was quick to point out ground and pound is not grappling... so which is it?

He's right, you can't do that on the mats in a competition. But, this is a self defense scenario, which means no rules.

To me its easy, double leg takedown, sit on his chest, feed him his teeth.

I've haven't had to do it since high school, I was a wrestler, but since 80 to 90% of the people out there don't have a clue about grappling I do believe it would be a high percentage move. Oh yeah, I saw it work a lot in the early UFCs, so its not what you would call theoretical fighting.

Actually in high school I didn't feed him his teeth. I took him down, sat on his chest, pinned his arms and tried to spit in his mouth while he was yelling for me to get off.

[Ultimatewingchun]

"Short version on a long story. He was confronted by a guy that was dating a chick he was dating. Told the guy he did not want any trouble but the guy Charlie Murphy front kicked him and tried to take him down. My brother thought he would tie him up in order to avoid striking the guy and causing a cut or bruise. The guy was not letting up so my brother got him in a guillotine and fell back on the ground. He said he thought the guy was trying to punch him in the ribs, he did not know he was being stabbed. A friend of his saw the knife and pulled them apart. The other guy ran and called the cops and told them he was attacked."

[monji112000]

"Short version on a long story. He was confronted by a guy that was dating a chick he was dating. Told the guy he did not want any trouble but the guy Charlie Murphy front kicked him and tried to take him down. My brother thought he would tie him up in order to avoid striking the guy and causing a cut or bruise. The guy was not letting up so my brother got him in a guillotine and fell back on the ground. He said he thought the guy was trying to punch him in the ribs, he did not know he was being stabbed. A friend of his saw the knife and pulled them apart. The other guy ran and called the cops and told them he was attacked."

Just to play devils advocate, what the heck does this have to do with pulling guard..? I know nothing about Knife fighting but I assume that pinning the person (you being on top), or even just clinching with the opponent could get you stabbed.

[sanjuro_ronin]

"Short version on a long story. He was confronted by a guy that was dating a chick he was dating. Told the guy he did not want any trouble but the guy Charlie Murphy front kicked him and tried to take him down. My brother thought he would tie him up in order to avoid striking the guy and causing a cut or bruise. The guy was not letting up so my brother got him in a guillotine and fell back on the ground. He said he thought the guy was trying to punch him in the ribs, he did not know he was being stabbed. A friend of his saw the knife and pulled them apart. The other guy ran and called the cops and told them he was attacked."

The not knowing you are being stabbed is typical of the adrenaline state of a fight,most guys only notice that have been stabbed or cut when they see it or it is pointed out by someone.
That happens when the guy stabbing is "punching" with the knife as opposed to "stabbing and twisting" which will get a more serious response from the person being stabbed.

[Knifefighter]

"Short version on a long story. He was confronted by a guy that was dating a chick he was dating. Told the guy he did not want any trouble but the guy Charlie Murphy front kicked him and tried to take him down. My brother thought he would tie him up in order to avoid striking the guy and causing a cut or bruise. The guy was not letting up so my brother got him in a guillotine and fell back on the ground. He said he thought the guy was trying to punch him in the ribs, he did not know he was being stabbed. A friend of his saw the knife and pulled them apart. The other guy ran and called the cops and told them he was attacked."

Ummm... that's not pulling guard. That is finishing a guillotine. And, anytime you have your hands tied up doing anything when his arms are not controlled, you run the risk of getting stabbed. Same thing when you are punching. Lots of times, it's even easier to stab someone who is trying to strike.

BTW, I can see why the police are conducting a further investigation. Depending on who started the fight, each of them deadly force and one of them probably wasn't justified in doing so. Which one will probably be determined by who the true agressor was.

[jmd161]

you use grappling to set up ground and pound, just like you use china to set up strikes....is that ok?

I have no problem with what you said... actually, It's the same thing I was trying to say when knifefighter replied GNP wasn't grappling in the other thread.

both, chin na involves standing locks and standing locks that lead to takedowns where the opponent stays standing and applys a lock or break to the opponent on the ground correct?

Correct!

my question is why cant we see any evidence of this working....people are happy to demo it for clips and pictures but why cant we see it is use against an opponent looking to do you harm?

I have no idea why chin na is always shown the way it is in clips. I question that myself... They rarely show any take downs and usually stop at the standing lock and no one stops at a standing lock! I wish I could explain why they demo chin na that way but, I honestly have no clue.

[Knifefighter]

I have no idea why chin na is always shown the way it is in clips. I question that myself... They rarely show any take downs and usually stop at the standing lock and no one stops at a standing lock! I wish I could explain why chin na is demoed they way it is but, I honestly have no clue.

They demo it that way because they don't train it in a realistic manner against resisting opponents. That's how so many unrealistic techniques end up there.