This is what happens when you pull guard

[jmd161]

It amazes me that in ALL the fights you've seen, the guy on the bottom never had any friends...

I never said that they had no friends... friends are not always in a position where they can help you! I've seen a person get jumped and when his friends tried to help they were out numbered! Anyone planning to jump someone is going to attempt to scope out the person and who he's with before they jump you!

Or is that only here in Miami?

I recall VIVIDLY the result of a former co-worker of mine that got the mount and was doing fine, untill he got kicked in the face, got KO'd and lost 2 teeth, got a broken nose AND his lips all stiched up.
This happened outside of Joker nightclub in Toronto in 98.

Yes, I name places and time of the events I see, I am freaky that way.

I recall vividly at the Inferno lounge night club in Ft. Lauderdale my best friend and his cousin were jumped in the mens room by four guys...what they didn't know was they had another cousin with them that had a gun (yes a gun inside the club) end of the story four guys laying on the mens room floor with bullets in them!

Again, like I said you never know what the person may have or whose with them!

[Yao Sing]

Which hand? The one waving around in front of your face or the one quietly flipping open a lock back knife, the one you can't even see let alone grab.

Btw, is he right handed or left handed? Even if you knew do you know which hand has the knife if he has one?

In the case the OP presented he didn't even pull the knife until well into the fight.

Sorry but your fantasy fu braggadocio just doesn't cut it. Pun intended.

Sorry dude, not going to play the 'what if' game with you.

You just go ahead and play your UFC game in the street and maybe you'll be the next one showing the stab wounds on video. I'm sorry about the guy getting knifed but hopefully it will shake some of these guys out of their fantasy fights and into reality.

Now on a lighter note we had a major brawl across the street (kind of long story) between 2 houses at night. Two brothers were involved in it and one of the other guy had one brother on the ground. The other brother turned and grabbed a stick and turned back beating the guy with it only to find out while he turned away his brother had reversed the situation so he was beating the crap out of his own brother. Now that's funny.

[Lucas]

that is funny.

[Knifefighter]

LOL @ thinking the guy pulling guard won't pull out a blade and jam it into the other guy's neck as he is pulling him down into the guard where he can't get away.

[Knifefighter]

Sorry dude, not going to play the 'what if' game with you.

You just go ahead and play your UFC game in the street and maybe you'll be the next one showing the stab wounds on video. I'm sorry about the guy getting knifed but hopefully it will shake some of these guys out of their fantasy fights and into reality.

Now on a lighter note we had a major brawl across the street (kind of long story) between 2 houses at night. Two brothers were involved in it and one of the other guy had one brother on the ground. The other brother turned and grabbed a stick and turned back beating the guy with it only to find out while he turned away his brother had reversed the situation so he was beating the crap out of his own brother. Now that's funny.

LOL @ thinking you chi na is going to stop someone from pulling out his blade.

[Frost]

Ha ha ha like someone is going to have a video camera handy when they're assaulted or mugged on the street or in an alley. You guys kill me with this video mentality..

Who said just when you are being mugged, standing locks are legal in MMA and other full contact arenas just show us it being used once, anywhere...and people mamange to film fights on cameras and phones all the time and get them on you tube, surely we can see one example of chin na actually working on the net....

Apparently the guy getting stabbed failed to do so and instead was playing UFC in the real world. That's my point.

And knowing chin na he would have been able to control the knife hand without getting stabbed...how many time have you seen this done or done it yourself.... the fact is against a knife, especially if you are NOT aware your opponent has one, chances are you will get stabbed or cut, its what happens

T he best knife defence stuff i have seen comes from a guy who gave up chinna and kali AFTER getting stabbed multipul times in an attack and instead modified greco roman wrestling into an effective kife system

[Frost]

Complete first rounds with little to no action never happens in the UFC. Same with holding on watching the clock waiting for the round to end. Get real and quit arguing for the sake of arguing.

you are confusing intent with outcome, understandabe if you have never competed

Guys train with the intent of KOing subbing the guy as quickly as possible, however aganst a n opponent as good as you sometimes it takes longer...and in the real world one pounch knocked outs rarely happen

being told to get real by someone who believes chin na will save them against a knife and that the UFC is unrealistic because the fights sometimes last a whole round or three is a bit rich

[Frost]

It amazes me that in ALL the fights you've seen, the guy on the bottom never had any friends...

I recall VIVIDLY the result of a former co-worker of mine that got the mount and was doing fine, untill he got kicked in the face, got KO'd and lost 2 teeth, got a broken nose AND his lips all stiched up.
This happened outside of Joker nightclub in Toronto in 98.

Yes, I name places and time of the events I see, I am freaky that way.

Yep i always wonder what people are doing to constantly see these multipul street fights where they all go to the ground, all end up in mount and all get attacked by the guy on the bottoms friends

[goju]

actually yao sing if an mma schools is teaching The specific gracie brand of bjj they will cover basic standing locks that are equivalent to chinese chin na

[Frost]

I will say this though, NOT adressing the issue of an armed attacker ( inf not in reality at least in potential) is one of the major problems of MMA and many other sport combat arts.
That said, it is also the problem of almost every other MA.

the only difference i know is that most sports guys acknowledge this hole in their game.....alot of the TCMA crowd (and i was one) have a false belief they can handle a knife because of some drills they have done

[jmd161]

Yep i always wonder what people are doing to constantly see these multipul street fights where they all go to the ground, all end up in mount and all get attacked by the guy on the bottoms friends

It's a lot easier to see just this in urban city areas... In urban city areas the body slam is a big part of the fight game. You are guaranteed to see at least one or an attempt at one in every street fight. It's very easy to end up on the bottom or in mount during a successful slam.

the only difference i know is that most sports guys acknowledge this hole in their game.....alot of the TCMA crowd (and i was one) have a false belief they can handle a knife because of some drills they have done

I don't believe this to be true... we work on knife defense a lot and non of us have delusions of fighting against someone with a knife! I've pulled off defense in two man drills but I would never try it unless I have no choice! That means I have no escape and no chance of stopping the attack... that's the only time I would ever try standing and defending myself against a knife.

[Frost]

It's a lot easier to see just this in urban city areas... In urban city areas the body slam is a big part of the fight game. You are guaranteed to see at least one or an attempt at one in every street fight. It's very easy to end up on the bottom or in mount during a successful slam.
.

i think you missed my point, point was not that fights happen or go to the ground as much as the guy on top always gets beaten by the guy on the bottoms mates.....
I went to university in the same city that geoff thompson worked the door, i saw lots of fights, judo and rugby were big there so saw lots of throws, not too many ended up with the thrower getting kicked in the head etc or mobbed...because he tended to go out with his mates just like the other guy did and they tended to be just as up for a fight as he was

[Yao Sing]

actually yao sing if an mma schools is teaching The specific gracie brand of bjj they will cover basic standing locks that are equivalent to chinese chin na

I wonder why Mr. Frost failed to mention that? Oh yeah, he was too busy playing 'I know it all everyone else is a dummy'. Maybe a conversational approach concerning the video would have helped.

So what do all you uber experts think is the best time to deal with a weapon situation, before he pulls the knife or after. I'm sure you guys will have some kind of brilliant way to twist your answer into something other than agreeing with me it's before.

Apparently this guy was so busy trying to choke out his opponent he gave him plenty of time to pull the knife and stab him multiple times. This is why street fights have to dealt with fast and you need to know where the guys hands are. Why do you think cops focus on hands? If MMA gyms are teaching moves equivalent to or better than Chin Na then great. Why the argument? Or are you guys just bored and felt it was more fun than actually discussing things.

And if you'll notice I never spoke of dealing with a knife in hand other than to say run. You guys brought out the Chin Na knife defense.

I don't even know much Chin Na other than what came with the different arts I've studied. I was using the name in general. The whole point that I was getting at was his decision to play sport in a non-sport environment.

I see this as a potential problem. Maybe this guy was just copying what he sees on UFC and had no training at all. Or he trained at a gym that focuses only on sport fighting and he took that mentality into a street fight.

[Frost]

I wonder why Mr. Frost failed to mention that? Oh yeah, he was too busy playing 'I know it all everyone else is a dummy'. Maybe a conversational approach concerning the video would have helped.

So what do all you uber experts think is the best time to deal with a weapon situation, before he pulls the knife or after. I'm sure you guys will have some kind of brilliant way to twist your answer into something other than agreeing with me it's before.

Apparently this guy was so busy trying to choke out his opponent he gave him plenty of time to pull the knife and stab him multiple times. This is why street fights have to dealt with fast and you need to know where the guys hands are. Why do you think cops focus on hands? If MMA gyms are teaching moves equivalent to or better than Chin Na then great. Why the argument? Or are you guys just bored and felt it was more fun than actually discussing things.

And if you'll notice I never spoke of dealing with a knife in hand other than to say run. You guys brought out the Chin Na knife defense.

I don't even know much Chin Na other than what came with the different arts I've studied. I was using the name in general. The whole point that I was getting at was his decision to play sport in a non-sport environment.

I see this as a potential problem. Maybe this guy was just copying what he sees on UFC and had no training at all. Or he trained at a gym that focuses only on sport fighting and he took that mentality into a street fight.

actually its a knife thread and you raised the china thing on the first page, saying to be more rounded and better fighters they should add chin na...did you not mean to input this on a knife/guard related thread...did you post on the wrong thread by mistake?

I never mentioned it because its not taught in any place other than strict GJJ schools, and most of their guys feel the standing stuff is not really that effective

No good MMA school will teach standing joint locks, they will teach standing control positions in the clinch, underhooks, overhooks, head control etc but not locks as there is too much freedom of movement to make them effective.

so what exactly is your answer then, lock his arm after he has pulled the knife or hit him in the eye, hit him in the throat and kill him...and then hope he does have a concealed weapon otherwise you are off to jail?

so you dont know much chin na, you dont train MMA, but yet you know MMA guys would be better off knowing chin na

[Knifefighter]

I wonder why Mr. Frost failed to mention that? Oh yeah, he was too busy playing 'I know it all everyone else is a dummy'.

Maybe because he understands that the "self-defense" techniques are generally just an ineffective as chin na is. Neither of them work worth beans.