This is what happens when you pull guard

[Frost]

Maybe because he understands that the "self-defense" techniques are generally just an ineffective as chin na is. Neither of them work worth beans.

what he said, plus you dont see them trained in many places other than GJJ schools, and since i dont train in one of those schools i dont train them so didnt even think of them

[jmd161]

what he said, plus you dont see them trained in many places other than GJJ schools, and since i dont train in one of those schools i dont train them so didnt even think of them

I don't claim to be an expert or very experienced with Chin Na/Kum Na but, of what I do know... most Chin Na techniques are not meant to be standing locks. They are meant to be limb breaking techniques,take down techniques or transitional locks leading to a break or take down.

[Knifefighter]

I don't claim to be an expert or very experienced with Chin Na/Kum Na but, of what I do know... most Chin Na techniques are not meant to be standing locks. They are meant to be limb breaking techniques,take down techniques or transitional locks leading to a break or take down.

Almost all locks are breaks.

As far as chi na being a take down, please point to one or two examples of that.

[jmd161]

i think you missed my point, point was not that fights happen or go to the ground as much as the guy on top always gets beaten by the guy on the bottoms mates.....
I went to university in the same city that geoff thompson worked the door, i saw lots of fights, judo and rugby were big there so saw lots of throws, not too many ended up with the thrower getting kicked in the head etc or mobbed...because he tended to go out with his mates just like the other guy did and they tended to be just as up for a fight as he was

Ok, I never said the guy on top get's beats by the guy on bottoms friends. I said in the fights I've seen the guy on the bottom always got stomped by the guy on top friends. The guy on top took a few shots (punches, kicks) from his own friends jumping in but, the guy on the bottom always got the worst of it!

That's what I said in reply to sanjuro_ronin saying this...

There are times that being on the bottom MAY be safer than being on top, mounting the other guy.
On the bottom you can use him to shield yourself, you can't do that on top.
On the bottom you can see your attackers and they have an obstacle, him.
On top your back is exposed and others have a clear shot at you.
Just saying that fights tend to be shades of gray and are rarely B&W.

[jmd161]

Almost all locks are breaks.

As far as chi na being a take down, please point to one or two examples of that.

If we train tomorrow... I will gladly film some Chin Na take downs and transitions video.


Here is a bit of Chin Na with some take downs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejIyj...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgAkbSVSQqE

See the problem with most Chin Na video is they stop at the lock. They don't usually continue on to the take down or follow up technique.

[Knifefighter]

If we train tomorrow... I will gladly film some Chin Na take downs and transitions video.


Here is a bit of Chin Na with some take downs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejIyj...eature=related

Please do the video with you and your training partners actually resisting the takedowns because the clip you showed are takedowns that are mostly not effective against actual resisting adult male opponents.

BTW, if that is the chi na that will supposedly counter a knife attack, good luck with that.

[jmd161]

Please do the video with you and your training partners actually resisting the takedowns because the clip you showed are takedowns that are mostly not effective against actual resisting adult male opponents..

You asked to see some Chin Na take downs.. I don't have any video currently myself so, I did a quick search on you tube.

BTW, if that is the chi na that will supposedly counter a knife attack, good luck with that.

Come on bro!

It really get's frustrating when you do cr@p like this! You didn't ask for knife defense Chin Na nor did I say this was knife defense Chin Na. You really can't help yourself can you?

We have a good discussion going I agree to post video then you have to be the a$$ everyone expects you to be instead of just taking the adult way out!

[Knifefighter]

You asked to see some Chin Na take downs.. I don't have any video currently myself so, I did a quick search on you tube.

That's why I mentioned the part about doing it with resisting opponents. When you never train with resistance, you end up with mostly b.s. techniques like those shown in the clips above.

Come on bro!

It really get's frustrating when you do cr@p like this! You didn't ask for knife defense Chin Na nor did I say this was knife defense Chin Na. You really can't help yourself can you?

We have a good discussion going I agree to post video then you have to be the a$$ everyone expects you to be instead of just taking the adult way out!

The point about chi na was for the guy who said it would work against the knife. Sorry, it wasn't meant to be about you.

[jmd161]

That's why I mentioned the part about doing it with resisting opponents. When you never train with resistance, you end up with mostly b.s. techniques like those shown in the clips above.



The point about chi na was for the guy who said it would work against the knife. Sorry, it wasn't meant to be about you.

Ok, no prob!

I type pretty slow and missed that you added doing video with resistance... MY bad sorry I thought you were addressing me with the knife comment. I can try doing some knife stuff on the video as well but, understand I've already stated I wouldn't try any of it unless I have no choice! That's with any knife defense I've seen not just what we train. My ideal defense against a knife would be a gun and several feet of distance!

[Knifefighter]

Ok, no prob!

I type pretty slow and missed that you added doing video with resistance... MY bad sorry I thought you were addressing me with the knife comment. I can try doing some knife stuff on the video as well but, understand I've already stated I wouldn't try any of it unless I have no choice! That's with any knife defense I've seen not just what we train. My ideal defense against a knife would be a gun and several feet of distance!

Here's how you do knife defense. Use a metal training knife (or a wooden dowel if you can't get your hands on one). Tell your training partner to "kill" you, full force and without stopping. Do your techniques from there.

Same with the chi na. Train it full force with the training partners trying not to let you take them down or lock them up.

[goju]

As far as chi na being a take down, please point to one or two examples of that.

[Frost]

eamples of it being used against someone actually fighting back would be nice

[goju]

first it was that they didnt lead to throws now its back to something else when people are proven wrong?

we already covered the cage fight incident where a gjj fighter used that standing arm lock to tear his opponents limb up and humble wing chun guy posted that duke roufus cip with that basic trainsitonal shoulder lock from the clinch.

[Knifefighter]

eamples of it being used against someone actually fighting back would be nice

It's pretty well established that any takedown done like those shown above is only going to happen accidentally.

[Frost]

first it was that they didnt lead to throws now its back to something else when people are proven wrong?

we already covered the cage fight incident where a gjj fighter used that standing arm lock to tear his opponents limb up and humble wing chun guy posted that duke roufus cip with that basic trainsitonal shoulder lock from the clinch.

anyone can demo anything, the fact is apart from one or two instances (flukes) chin na has not worked anywhere where the opponent fights back...and no one can post videos other than demos of it working against people either standing or leading to a throw.....now please prove it works by posting actual clips of it working in a fight, not pictures from books or demos with complient partners

i ask this as someone with more experience in chin na than i care to remember, i judged people on it in clubs and i demoed it at national comps...and i could never pull it off or ever met anyone who could in a full on sparrring match