Chain punching

[k gledhill]

It's funny seeing everyone argue what is or isn't wing chun...seems that everyone knows the "right" way.

Chain punching in it's purest form--is linked punches is it not? Isn't that what the translation is from Chinese? So how is it that all of you have such different ideas as to what it "truly" is and what it should be? They are punches done in succession, one after the other, in a broad sense.

That's why the wing chun system as a whole will NEVER progress to an elite and proven form of fighting...too many people who are too big for their britches.

chain punching in its purest form its root is based on what two basic striking energy's ?

the most basic thing we do, we start the SLT with them, we do dan chi-sao with them, we do chi-sao with them, we do the dummy with them together for alignment...

still think its fists on a straight line ...A to B really fast ! take that ! eggbeater from hell comin at ya ...too funny.

[k gledhill]

ah the internet is so entertaining

Keep watching you may learn something to teach your students....really,... making your student/partner do a kwan sao as a counter attacking action...which part of kwan is attacking me ?....you wouldnt last 1 second of a sparring match...serious. All I would have to do is feint a punch and you would turn with 2 hands....no ? you dont think so ? too funny. VT proving is EVIL !

Tan sao never leaves the centerline because its a punch....jum sao never leaves the centerline. because its apunch..these are the 2 striking forces that control the alignment of our strikes. We spend our whole training lives perfecting their alignment drilling, for sparring for fighting...the dummy alignment, cycling rotation of attacking actions ... We do the same energy tan/jum for each arm so we can 'face' and fire at either angle to the opponent...seamless punching energy transfers to become either tan 'elbow spreads' or jum elbow inwards...each striking as they use the elbow idea....attacking simultaneously. Efficiency , directness, blah blah blah

[imperialtaichi]

Hey Edward,

Good on you for putting your thoughts out and creating material for discussion.

No one is 100 percent right, nor 100 percent wrong. Discussions should really be more scientific and objective instead of "I'm better than you!" or "I'm right, you are wrong." Unfortunately we get plenty of that.

One question, what if the opponent decides to grab both your arms instead of blocking you one arm at a time?

Cheers,
John

[k gledhill]

Its time i made a video....you guys are on my side ..partners , like it or not we are a family.

maybe you can see what Im talking about in actions. I feel silly berating you, when you cant even evaluate my input properly, visually and with detailed input.

There are varying levels of VT....your nose is your guide, like mine.

actions speak louder than woids...

[imperialtaichi]

Cool KG, looking forward to that.

[Graham H]

Kwan Sau is a combination of Bong Sau and a punch. It is performed on the Dummy the way it is because the Dummy is fixed......as it is with many actions in the form that cannot be performed correctly.

Kwan Sau = 50% Bong Sau 50% Strike. Anybody that is posing with Kwan Sau and trying to manipulate or control peoples arms with it need to step outside the Chi Sau bubble. That stuff don't work in reality.

GH

[Graham H]

what if the opponent decides to grab both your arms instead of blocking you one arm at a time?

Cheers,
John

If your opponent tries to grab both your arms then maybe he is a little stupid. When you fight somebody they have one thing in mind. To land anything possible on you they can. Ving Tsun is a tool to help you deal deal with this mess. There would be nothing more pleasing for somebody to try and grab my arms in a fight. It would make it easier for me to box there ears in....

GH

[LSWCTN1]

Kwan Sau is a combination of Bong Sau and a punch. It is performed on the Dummy the way it is because the Dummy is fixed......as it is with many actions in the form that cannot be performed correctly.

Kwan Sau = 50% Bong Sau 50% Strike. Anybody that is posing with Kwan Sau and trying to manipulate or control peoples arms with it need to step outside the Chi Sau bubble. That stuff don't work in reality.

GH

the strike should manipulate or control the opponents arm always. not just a chi sao idea

[YungChun]

May not be the root cause, but it's a symptom that's hard to ignore.

And that's just the way it is... There is a ton of inconsistency in what is called Wing Chun because there are no standards, no checks and balances, no real qualifications. You mainly have a whole lot of folks who heard this, or heard that, that have no real experience...

There are certain basics that are often ignored, correct (or any) body power generation, structure destruction, connected and correct use of tools, training to work with real energy and release of power, even in the classical training, etc--it's clearly missing..

We see many examples of Chun on the net with no power, no body connection, no structure destruction, and instead slap happy/chop happy poses and methods that allow folks to "win" or look good in ChiSao (tag), etc.. That's why none of this will never even be seen in any fight because it doesn't address what happens in fights or what's needed to win fights...

Agreement is great... but agreement on things where the core is missing or ignored won't help anyone or any art reach any level of success..

[sanjuro_ronin]

Bah, you pansies !!

[edward]

@john the drill i showed is a basic way of doing it, eventually depending on your level different scenarios can be added in from grabbing the hands (i guess its possible someone would be dumb enough to do this) to shooting at your legs and grappling, etc, etc......

[LoneTiger108]

in your opinion....you can do what you like with 'kwan sao' < im just opening your mind to a simple idea many seem to have lost for 'signature' poses...not a pose dude

Posture Kev. Not pose! I never suggested I could 'do what I like' either, but I think most of what I write here is just misinterpreted.

Quansau is specific. Even the NAME means something, and I'll let you in on a little secret. There is NOTHING that states that quansau is used to attack two arms with one. There is NOTHING to suggest that both arms move at the same time. And there is absolutley NOTHING that suggests that you only practise this posture when you learn the 108 MYJ! Seriously misguided info imho.

try it on desmond kwan sao him

Why don't you ask him to come and see me?! You seem so keen for me to visit his school and offer some sort of challenge out to him dude. You like to stand behind your elders or something?

[k gledhill]

Posture Kev. Not pose! I never suggested I could 'do what I like' either, but I think most of what I write here is just misinterpreted.

Quansau is specific. Even the NAME means something, and I'll let you in on a little secret. There is NOTHING that states that quansau is used to attack two arms with one. There is NOTHING to suggest that both arms move at the same time. And there is absolutley NOTHING that suggests that you only practise this posture when you learn the 108 MYJ! Seriously misguided info imho.



Why don't you ask him to come and see me?! You seem so keen for me to visit his school and offer some sort of challenge out to him dude. You like to stand behind your elders or something?

coming from the flag waving, ring of death merchant your deluded...

[imperialtaichi]

If your opponent tries to grab both your arms then maybe he is a little stupid. When you fight somebody they have one thing in mind. To land anything possible on you they can. Ving Tsun is a tool to help you deal deal with this mess. There would be nothing more pleasing for somebody to try and grab my arms in a fight. It would make it easier for me to box there ears in....

GH

Thanks GH

Ok, what about if someone decides to take a couple of your punches and wrap you up and throw you to the ground? Typical jujitsu type scenario.

In my opinion, if we train our strikes effectively, the opponent would fall before being able to pull us down. But what if the opponent is used to taking punches? Do we have a back-up plan since we are not ground fighting specialists?

Cheers,
John

[k gledhill]

Many of my fights started with my wrists either both being grabbed, or the lead man sao while the guy/s would come low to make a strike...i used open palm strikes to good effect on the top of their heads for a stunning concussion. Or I would simply use the pressure sense we get from the seung ma toi ma to 'feel thier energy pulses as they tried to push me. I would use thier timing to make my move, sometimes to break out of the grabs to hit them, or let them grab my wrists knowing they couldnt hit me until they let go funny but after a while if a guy grabs the wrists its like okay now what ? head butts worked, elbows...
Bil gees lowering elbows are wrist grab escapes, even from 2 grabs with your back against a wall its very easy to regain your freedom from the grabs and continue...also a lan sao can be used with turning stances to simply put your elbow over their forearm as they push you...similar to chum kil....you can then take the energy of their pushing and keep them going into a wall etc...trap them and hit them or wait for ...assistance
Lop sao drills also have tying up methods to trap a grabber who doesnt let go of your bong wrist....

why we dont grab except for lop, bad habit.