That isn't push hands, it is pushing to a takedown!
How is that any different than what all boys do grow up doing? I was doing pushing to a takedown when I was 8 years old. I am NOT impressed!
Its almost judo!
Registered User
That isn't push hands, it is pushing to a takedown!
How is that any different than what all boys do grow up doing? I was doing pushing to a takedown when I was 8 years old. I am NOT impressed!
Its almost judo!
NIII
is competing in push hands not contrary to Taoist beliefs??? Taosim is non competetive in nature, so it always seemed weird to me to see these comps... even the very conservative ones... but these newschool more liberal extreme push hands and all that, does this not move away from the central beliefs surrounding the art in the first place??? why not just be a judoka, no shame in that...
sorry if i offend, im not trying to be a **** or start arguments. its just that my understanding of taoism tells me that this runs against the grain...
the ass assassin
i have personally spoken to the jade emperor last november and he told me its ok to compete. i also talked to the celestial masters and theyre cool wit it also. so i dont see a problem. i think ur overreacting, or maybe intimidated by their manliness
Last edited by bawang; 08-23-2010 at 10:51 PM.
Honorary African American
grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat The Lost Art of Anal Destruction™®LLC .
Senior Business Director at TEAM ASSHAMMER consulting services ™®LLC
Registered User
I think you have a misunderstanding of Tao. Although Taoism is a philosophy with many different branches from sober thinking to outright nuttiness, not all of them actually follow or have a comprehensive understanding of the principles of Tao.Originally Posted by Syn7
Competitiveness is clearly illustrated within the symbol Yin-Yang, but more important than that, it is a natural process of nature that may be directly observed by anyone. Tao IS the natural process. It is not something imposed from above like a God imposing his will onto creation. If one wants to understand Tao all one need do is observe it directly.
Nowhere in nature is competitiveness absent. Every animal/organism competes for its survival and for the opportunity to reproduce. Competitiveness, then, is a natural process of Tao; one that should be embraced and understood within its proper context.
The principles I think you may be referring too are the ones that advise avoiding direct conflict when it is not expedient or of clear benefit to do so. In other words, don’t stand in front of a rushing 300# man thinking you can stop him from running into a busy street. But you could certainly stand in front of your 2 year old child in order to stop him from running into a busy street. One will run you over, the other will not
The relationship between you and the other person in both instances is a competitive one. In each case the other person has an intention to perform an action and you have a contrary intention to stop them. These two intentions are a conflict, Yin and Yang. You may attempt to stop the running man by trying to convince him of the error of his actions, but this too is a competition, the only difference is discussion is competitiveness within the arena of reason rather than physical action.
The principle of avoiding “foolish/unproductive” competition is rooted within the principle of “conservation of energy”. One of the foundational principles of Taoism is to avoid wasting energy/resources. If you are going to get plowed down when attempting to stop the #300 man by stepping in front of him, you are wasting your energy in the attempt.
One of the purposes of Tai Chi is to train yourself to succeed in physical conflict by using the least amount of energy necessary in order to accomplish your goal of defending yourself and/or others. In order to obtain the proper experience, one must, of necessity, put oneself into circumstances that allow you to be challenged. Formal competitions are one method of accomplishing this. However inadequate these events are in actually simulating real life circumstances they are still intended to help practitioners develop their skills. And they are fun, and there is nothing wrong with fun.
Who wouldn't be intimidated by the stench of manliness emanating from you......or is it that smell of garlic?
Last edited by Scott R. Brown; 08-24-2010 at 01:46 AM.
Registered User
We may not have intention to hurt a tiger, but that tiger will have intention to eat us. No matter how much that we love health, performance, Qi, and spiritual development, we had better to have the ability to take care any challenge fight even when we are 80 years old. The day that we started our CMA training, the day that our life were leaded into certain direction no matter we like it or not.
Last edited by YouKnowWho; 08-24-2010 at 02:05 AM.
Cybernetic Polymath
Dao: Adapt or Die.
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and to forget his own." -Cicero
pagan kickboxing taoist
Looked similar to shuai Jiao, but subtle differences.
Originally posted by BawangOriginally posted by Bawangi had an old taichi lady talk smack behind my back. i mean comon man, come on. if it was 200 years ago,, mebbe i wouldve smacked her and took all her monehs.i am manly and strong. do not insult me cracker.
Registered User
you say that like its a bad thingThat isn't push hands, it is pushing to a takedown!
How is that any different than what all boys do grow up doing? I was doing pushing to a takedown when I was 8 years old. I am NOT impressed!
Its almost judo!
so the original version of taichi was a full on grappling art, now that really makes sense, it would also make sense that people training a watered down version would be upset upon learning theres nothing special or secret about it
Registered User
I hope to see more of these types of push hands rules. It is very hard for me to find good competitions in my area.
Resigned
a) what Scott said;
b) taosim is not non-competative, it is non-absolutist; meaning that, it is a way of appreciating the constant change that goes on in the world; as such, it teaches one to observe directly and act accordingly - do what is best at the right time and place - there is no formula beyond that; it then gives "instruction" as to how one might best cultivate this ability to be able to be sensitive enough to changes; one very concrete way to cultivate this listening and ability to act is via direct physical contention with someone, such as occurrs in push-hands - meaning that pushing can be both an activity in and of itself, but can also be a way of "practicing" for life in general (well, it is also part of life in general, but it's also not); so one might glean from push hands something that enables one to better "compete" with others be it at home, work, etc., in a way that is more harmonious / efficient / whatever - so it's not anti-taoist at all; of course, when it becomes a fixed construct such as is found in many styles of taiji, then it no longer fulfills its roll as well as it might given more freedom and spontinaity to its practice...
Resigned
muthafu(ka still owes me 10 bucks...
NIII
its my understanding that the tao encourages cooperation over competition as a means of growth... ive heard both sides of the argument and i stll stand by what i said before... i'll look for some quotes and whatnot sometime and try to back up my words...
i never eally thought about it untill i read an article on it, i'll see if i can find it...
Registered User
Quotes won't make much difference. Tao is what is right before your face. You cannot deny what is right before your face......
Although, it IS a matter of perspective. Competeition, and every other interaction in life IS, in a sense, cooperation, but it is also competition. How we choose to view any phenomena influences how we experience it. Just as Yin is Yang and Yang is Yin.
Destruction is part of the balance of Tao, not wanting it to be so, or not percieving it to be so does not change it in the least.
Tao does not conform to our fancy, however it is in our best interest to understand the processes of Tao and accommodate ourselves to them.
Registered User
After you can beat the sh!t out of your challenger who knocks on your door, you can hug him and have spiritual growth with him for the rest of your life.
武(Wu) - martial = 止戈(Zhi Ge) - stop spear
After you can stop your opponent's spear that's coming toward your heart, you can then sing "kumbaya" as much as you want.
Last edited by YouKnowWho; 08-25-2010 at 08:37 PM.
the ass assassin
武(Wu) - martial = 戈止( Ge Zhi) - using spear to end
Honorary African American
grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat The Lost Art of Anal Destruction™®LLC .
Senior Business Director at TEAM ASSHAMMER consulting services ™®LLC
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