Extreme Push Hands Championship

[YouKnowWho]

武(Wu) - martial = 戈止( Ge Zhi) - using spear to end

I like that.

Only Chinese will know how to play words game like this. Do we share the same last name?

[Scott R. Brown]

I thought Wu Ge was a hom0phobic comment!

[donjitsu2]

Not the traditional type of push hands we're used to seeing.

This version seems like a step closer towards using those principles in an actual, aggressive self defense/fight situation.

I'm intrigued.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

The video didn't do justice to various matches, some were brilliant.. Kudos to Nick for opening it up to something more than 'paddy-cakes'.. after the formal competition, it was just open pushing and it got even better.. WCC Chen's students, 5 or more, wouldn't compete against each other for medals, skewing the results.. ultimately, the tournament was a prototype, Nick was studying the process carefully to continue evolving the competitions..

Be well..

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

its my understanding that the tao encourages cooperation over competition as a means of growth...

It is my understanding: Tao neither encourages nor discourages.. it simply 'is'.. stillness of mind allows the clarity to emerge that might reveal the 'isness' of Life, as opposed to the desirabilities that confuse minds..

Be well..

[Violent Designs]

I like what they're trying to do, and this is one good step along the way but...

But wouldn't just going straight to learn Shuai Jiao, Judo or Greco be umm.... this thing but more technical?

[Violent Designs]

This is awesome:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&h...&v=HUJ_VKiz6No

[Knifefighter]

That isn't push hands, it is pushing to a takedown!

How is that any different than what all boys do grow up doing? I was doing pushing to a takedown when I was 8 years old. I am NOT impressed!

Its almost judo!

Guess what? That's what it looks like when the opponent is actually resisting.

Good job for those guys for actually making it real.

[TaiChiBob]

This is awesome:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&h...&v=HUJ_VKiz6No

Hi VD: Yes, it is awesome.. some well-trained skills, and understanding.. it is my belief and hope that Taijiquan can and will achieve and surpass that level of play.. i hope Master Scrima can keep this format going and evolving.. there is no reason that players can't evolve to the point of Chin Na executed 'to display the skill', without expressing the Fa and concluding damage.. of course, this relies on the oponent's respect of the technique.. but, the Extreme Push-hands event is the 'first step' of that 'thousand mile journey'..

There was lots of very open discussion about the direction of this sort of event and the liabilities and technicalities.. Master Scrima couldn't bring in mats, that would qualify the event as 'fighting' to be sanctioned by the state, and the venue rejected that.. to the credit of the competitors, they agreed to continue, and.. if you watch some of hard landings, there is little or no padding under that carpet.. there were some tough takedowns, and great sportsmanship..

I'm gonna talk out of school, here, and.. i hope no one is offended.. The Extreme Push-hands event put on by Master Scrima, was largely at his personal expense, he opened everything up to everybody, basicly free of charge.. Nick very graciously covered expenses for judges, referees, and visiting dignitaries.. we tried different rule combinations, time limits, legal/illeagal manuevers, etc.. and, it was an impressive group of people: competitors, judges, refs, timekeepers, scorekeepers, and all the help that goes into one of these events, that dedicated themselves and this event to advancing Taijiquan toward its formerly respected place in CMA..

Be well..





most of the people that showed-up were there because they believe in something more than the 'Silk Pajama Guys and Gals' pretending to 'fight'..

[woliveri]

Hey Bob,

I"m going to speak for myself here and say the direction of this type of event is really not what allured me into the Chinese arts and I don't find it interesting in the least. More power to Nick and this seems to be the way many are heading along with BJJ and MMA. Traditional Chinese Martial arts seem to be on the decline these days which is too bad.

Just to illustrate my point. Try to see Master Chan with his size and frame in one of these competitions (if he was a competitor). Just wouldn't work.

Traditional Martial Arts trained gongs as did MC and as does our Bagua and many others. Strike fast and sure and don't play around with wrestling or grappling if at all possible. While Shuai Jiao has merit and application it's just not for some people.

I think this is a wrong direction but that's just me.

Oh, one other thing. People also seem to be on the band wagon that those who practice in Traditional Chinese garb (the so called Silk Pajama) are less than martial artists. I assure all that this is not the case. Just take a flight over the pond where this is worn commonly, daily, and by very accomplished martial artists.

Other than that, it's good to see you back. Haven't seen you for a while and thought you might have had issues with your back.

Best,

Bill

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Traditional Martial Arts trained gongs as did MC and as does our Bagua and many others. Strike fast and sure and don't play around with wrestling or grappling if at all possible. While Shuai Jiao has merit and application it's just not for some people.

Hi Bill: 'If at all possible", is the key.. when it's not possible, your life may depend on training and experience.. to be honest, how much actual 'technique' was trained at the temple? Sparring was brawling, and the few that could fight used other skills.. the essence of the the art, any art, is in a favorable conclusion, emphasis on 'conclusion'.. i favor this direction because it's not 'judge oriented', the 'conclusion' is evident..

That being said, i greatly favor the internal skills, but.. i also find those skills are not confined to the peculiar sensibilities of 'styles'.. internal skills are built on principles that are applicable in any style, including stick, blade, and firearms.. sometimes, we need to trust our skills beyond our comfort level, just to see if they are 'skills', or beliefs..

Be well..

[woliveri]

Greetings..

to be honest, how much actual 'technique' was trained at the temple?

Be well..

Well, I did say Traditional... The temple was form training. Watered down CMA to fit most interested westerners and to stay in business and out of lawsuits. My post was more about how MC was trained in China than how it's taught at the temple.


Best,

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Oh, one other thing. People also seem to be on the band wagon that those who practice in Traditional Chinese garb (the so called Silk Pajama) are less than martial artists.

Hi Bill: I have no issue with what a person wears, my comment was directed toward the 'stereotype' some people have.. otherwise, it doesn't matter whether the person is wearing silk pajamas or a toga, if they kick your butt your skills need to be re-evaluated. The discussions about styles or traditional or so many other petty issues are settled by results.. and, i happen to believe that Taijiquan is perfectly capable of superior results.

Be well..

[woliveri]

Greetings..


Hi Bill: I have no issue with what a person wears, my comment was directed toward the 'stereotype' some people have.. otherwise, it doesn't matter whether the person is wearing silk pajamas or a toga, if they kick your butt your skills need to be re-evaluated. The discussions about styles or traditional or so many other petty issues are settled by results.. and, i happen to believe that Taijiquan is perfectly capable of superior results.

Be well..

Yes, you appear to have to fight the stigma of what Taiji has been come to known as here in the west and thus need to promote Taiji as a Martial art rather than a health exercise. I can understand that. However, one of the best quotes I've heard regarding Taiji recently from a man with a lifetime of experience and one I consider to be at an extremely high level was "Taiji is about self cultivation".

In my (our) day I remember the quote "there's always someone better" which is a very valid statement and goes in step with the above quote about self cultivation. It was not so much about fighting or proving I could fight but the beauty of the art and the science of the "gong", at least for me. TCMA has such incredible theories and "gongs" it seems such a waste to let it go. I mean, if we need protection a .357 magnum or a multitude of other weapons will do just fine. Do you plan to do extreme push hands in your 70s or 80s? Did Ma Yueh Liang do extreme push hands? Will EPH give you superior and radiant health into your 90s?

I'm not trying to come down on this, I'm just trying to understand the direction, the rational.

Best,

[Knifefighter]

I'm not trying to come down on this, I'm just trying to understand the direction, the rational.

The rational is that some people want to do what actually works against a resisting opponent... and the fact is you don't always have your gun and/or don't always have the option of using it.