How would you get out of these?

[SAAMAG]

VS the mount: Chain punch
VS the side mount: Chain punch
VS the side control: Chain punch
VS the RNC: chain punch.

lol. So true.

[HumbleWCGuy]

What I am getting at is what WCK responses are there?

There really isn't a strong WC strategy in my opinion. I think that typically what one would try to do in WC is to get off finger and wrist locks along with eye gouges. The problem with that strategy though is that a WCer doesn't have the understanding of body position like the grappler and the grappler can resort to gouging and locks on the smaller joints as well. If someone has you in a scarfhold, do you really think that it is wise to poke him in the eye and really make him mad?

If a WCer is going to be taken to the ground it needs to be a race to how quickly he can get to the vital points. Although, like I said, without a good understanding of position, there really aren't good options for a "strict" WCer who has been mounted or put into a scarfold etc.

Edit: The only weakness that I think that a WCer could expose against a grappler is that often grapplers get overly into the sport aspects so in that regard a WCer could have a small chance of success.

[HumbleWCGuy]

At the risk of causing a flame war (oh, heck, it IS the wing chun forum) but anyway and any hoo

there are no "wing chun answers"

ie, there are only answers... this will shock a few here, but the way a good BJJ person gets out of those is NOT different then how a sambo or judo or wrestling person would....

and if a wing chun person wanted to get out, they've have to look at similar technqiues

I think other than a few people who lie and claim that their WC contains extensive ground grappling, no one would disagree.

[chusauli]

VS the mount: Chain punch
VS the side mount: Chain punch
VS the side control: Chain punch
VS the RNC: chain punch.

Chain punch to the mount will result in you being smothered then choked out or arm dislocated in arm bar or other submission...

Chain punch vs. Side mount would again have you submitted.

Chain punch against side control would lead you into a choke or crucifix.

Chain punch against a RNC would be an unconscious WCK'er.



Of course, people would say never get in the situation, but sometimes its unavoidable. I have always been a big advocate for cross training and know martial arts deal with 5 main areas: striking, kicking, joint locking, throwing and ground fighting.

Besides Fujian Dog Fist, Drunken Boxing and Di Tang Men, Chinese martial arts rarely deal with ground fighting.

Is WCK is useless in the above situations? Try it out. Get into the above scenarios and see how you will get out of them with WCK. Share with the group. No politics, just a positive discussion.

[lkfmdc]

I think other than a few people who lie and claim that their WC contains extensive ground grappling, no one would disagree.

answers like that will get us nowhere

[chusauli]

oppss... I'll let pass for the cricket gallary.

LOL!

http://www.naturesongs.com/insects.html

[sanjuro_ronin]

Chain punch to the mount will result in you being smothered then choked out or arm dislocated in arm bar or other submission...

Chain punch vs. Side mount would again have you submitted.

Chain punch against side control would lead you into a choke or crucifix.

Chain punch against a RNC would be an unconscious WCK'er.



Of course, people would say never get in the situation, but sometimes its unavoidable. I have always been a big advocate for cross training and know martial arts deal with 5 main areas: striking, kicking, joint locking, throwing and ground fighting.

Besides Fujian Dog Fist, Drunken Boxing and Di Tang Men, Chinese martial arts rarely deal with ground fighting.

Is WCK is useless in the above situations? Try it out. Get into the above scenarios and see how you will get out of them with WCK. Share with the group. No politics, just a positive discussion.

You obviously don't have the Real Authentic (TM) WCK !!

[m1k3]

You do realize when moving to the ground the number of centerlines grows from 3 to 7.

Besides the center and the shoulder/nip lines you have to add the 2 hip, 2 knee lines. The head line is the same as the center centerline although it can have some curve to it. Some people include the elbow lines but a good grappler and chunner will keep his elbows close and do as Eddie Bravo calls it, a T-Rex.

Hope that helps everyone.

[Dragonzbane76]

i'm not real familar with WC, so i don't know what they have to offer. From the reaction i can see that its not much.

[chusauli]

You obviously don't have the Real Authentic (TM) WCK !!

Yes, I know.

I'm still looking for those to step up and teach me.

Onegaishimasu!

[monji112000]

You do realize when moving to the ground the number of centerlines grows from 3 to 7.

Besides the center and the shoulder/nip lines you have to add the 2 hip, 2 knee lines. The head line is the same as the center centerline although it can have some curve to it. Some people include the elbow lines but a good grappler and chunner will keep his elbows close and do as Eddie Bravo calls it, a T-Rex.

Hope that helps everyone.

hmm I don't really follow the 7 lines theory..?
what Eddie calls T-Rex or Home alone is BJJ 101 you learn from the start.. I honestly (no disrespect to anyone) don't think someone who hasn't been shown,and put into a high stress situation using that style of defensive nature will do it naturally. In my experience its by allot of bridging attempts. Everyone says bridge but what they don't realize is thats well and good like sprawling.. how to use it is a whole other ball game.

[bennyvt]

Robert, I don't understand , if you say that any fighting is VT then anything you would do would be a VT response so why ask the questions, just like the biu jee guilloten its all the same thing isn't it

[chusauli]

Robert, I don't understand , if you say that any fighting is VT then anything you would do would be a VT response so why ask the questions, just like the biu jee guilloten its all the same thing isn't it

Maybe you could tell us how WSL or Barry would get out of these! After all, the elbow aligned punch to the kisser should do it...

[shawchemical]

Maybe you could tell us how WSL or Barry would get out of these! After all, the elbow aligned punch to the kisser should do it...

You're a facetious little knob mobster aren't you.

Not getting into them in the first place is a good start.

What if scenarios are nothing but hot air filled, circle jerk sessions. Something I hear you're quite experienced at.

Realistically, there is no tapping out in a real fight. You die or you live, nothing more. If you let someone sink a choke deeply enough, you can't escape.

Something needs to be done quickly to make the pressure ease to allow you to attempt an escape. Break a finger, bite whatever you can get a hold of.

[Knifefighter]

Realistically, there is no tapping out in a real fight. You die or you live, nothing more. If you let someone sink a choke deeply enough, you can't escape.

LOL... street fights often don't result in someone going to the hospital or morgue... and people often do "tap" by quitting and giving up.