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Thread: Was Bruce The Real Deal....

  1. #1
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    Was Bruce The Real Deal....

    This probably won't get any responses because everything about Bruce Lee has been talked about ad nauseum, but unfortunately I missed most of those conversations so I'll just post this anyway and see what happens. Many people say he was just an actor and he was an okay fighter, and others make him like this unbeatable martial arts legend. How good of a fighter was he really in real life? I posted this in another thread the other day, and I'll post it here just to get it started in case anyone does actually have something to say about this:

    "Lee was involved in competitive fights, some of which were arranged while others were not. Dan Inosanto stated, "There's no doubt in my mind that if Bruce Lee had gone into pro boxing, he could easily have ranked in the top three in the lightweight division or junior-welterweight division."[36]

    Lee defeated three-time champion British boxer Gary Elms by way of knockout in the third round in the 1958 Hong Kong Inter-School amateur Boxing Championships by using Wing Chun traps and high/low-level straight punches.[37] Hawkings Cheung, his fellow Wing Chun street fighter, witnessed the event. Lee knocked-out Pu Chung, a Cai Li Fo fighter, in the roof tops of Hong Kong in a 1958 Full-Contact match. The match was refereed by Wong Shun Leung.[38][39]

    The following year, Lee became a member of the "Tigers of Junction Street," and was involved in numerous gang-related street fights. "In one of his last encounters, while removing his jacket the fellow he was squaring off against sucker punched him and blackened his eye. Bruce flew into a rage and went after him, knocking him out, breaking his opponent's arm. The police were called as a result."[40] The incident took place on a Hong Kong rooftop at 10 P.M. on Wednesday, April 29, 1959.[41]

    In 1960 in Seattle, Lee backfisted and broke a man's nose after Lee saw him harassing a Chinese girl while Lee was taking a walk. This fight was witnessed by James DeMile in 1960.[citation needed]

    In 1962, Lee knocked out Uechi, a Japanese black belt Karateka, in 11 seconds in a 1962 Full-Contact match in Seattle. It was refereed by Jesse Glover. The incident took place in Seattle at a YMCA handball court. Taki Kamura says the battle lasted 10 seconds in contrary to Harts statement.[42] Ed Hart states "The karate man arrived in his gi (uniform), complete with black belt, while Bruce showed up in his street clothes and simply took off his shoes. The fight lasted exactly 11 seconds – I know because I was the time keeper – and Bruce had hit the guy something like 15 times and kicked him once. I thought he'd killed him."[43] The fight ended by Bruce knocking Uechi the length of the gymnasium.[44]

    In Oakland, California in 1964 at Chinatown, Lee had a controversial private match with Wong Jack Man. According to Lee, the Chinese community issued an ultimatum to him to stop teaching non-Chinese; when he refused to comply he was challenged to a combat match with their top fighter Wong Jack Man.[40] Wong had mastery of Xingyiquan, Northern Shaolin, and Tai chi chuan while being a direct student of Ma Kin Fung. The arrangement was that if Lee lost he would have to shut down his school, if he won then Lee would be free to teach Caucasians or anyone else.[40] Wong denies this, stating that he requested to fight Lee after Lee issued an open challenge during one of Lee's demonstrations at a Chinatown theater,[45] and that Wong himself did not discriminate against Caucasians or other non-Chinese.[46] However, contrary to this claimed motive is the signed formal letter manifested by Dan Chan with signatures by the martial art community, including Chan and Wong, as a petitioned document by the community does not correspond to the motive of responding to an open challenge.[original research?] "That paper had all the names of the sifu from Chinatown, but they don't scare me." — Bruce Lee[47]

    Wong and witness William Chen stated that the fight lasted an unusually long 20–25 minutes.[48] Individuals known to have witnessed the match included Cadwell, James Lee (Bruce Lee's associate, no relation) and William Chen, a teacher of Tai chi chuan. According to Bruce Lee, Linda Lee Cadwell, and James Yimm Lee, the fight lasted 3 minutes with a decisive victory for Bruce. "The fight ensued, it was a no holds barred fight, it took three minutes. Bruce got this guy down to the ground and said 'do you give up?' and the man said he gave up." — Linda Lee Cadwell[40]

    Wong Jack Man published his own account of the battle in the Chinese Pacific Weekly, a Chinese-language newspaper in San Francisco, which contained another challenge to Lee for a public rematch.[49] Lee had no reciprocation to Wong's article nor were there any further public announcements by either, but Lee had continued to teach Caucasians.

    Lee's eventual celebrity put him in the path of a number of men who sought to make a name for themselves by causing a confrontation with Lee. A challenger had invaded Lee's private home in Hong Kong by trespassing into the backyard to incite Lee in combat. Lee finished the challenger violently with a kick, infuriated over the home invasion. Describing the incident, Herb Jackson states,

    One time one fellow got over that wall, got into his yard and challenged him and he says 'how good are you?' And Bruce was poppin mad. He [Bruce] says 'he gets the idea, this guy, to come and invade my home, my own private home, invade it and challenge me.' He said he got so mad that he gave the hardest kick he ever gave anyone in his life.[50]

    Bob Wall, USPK karate champion and Lee's co-star in Enter the Dragon, recalled one encounter that transpired after a film extra kept taunting Lee. The extra yelled that Lee was "a movie star, not a martial artist," that he "wasn't much of a fighter." Lee answered his taunts by asking him to jump down from the wall he was sitting on. Wall described Lee's opponent as "a gang-banger type of guy from Hong Kong," a "****ed good martial artist," and observed that he was fast, strong, and bigger than Bruce.[51]

    This kid was good. He was strong and fast, and he was really trying to punch Bruce's brains in. But Bruce just methodically took him apart.[52] Bruce kept moving so well, this kid couldn't touch him...then all of a sudden, Bruce got him and rammed his ass with the wall and swept him up, proceeding to drop him and plant his knee into his opponent's chest, locked his arm out straight, and nailed him in the face repeatedly." — Bob Wall[53]"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Lee#Fight_history
    I was on the metro earlier, deep in meditation, when a ruffian came over and started causing trouble. He started pushing me with his bag, steadily increasing the force until it became very annoying. When I turned to him, before I could ask him to stop, he immediately started hurling abuse like a scoundrel. I performed a basic chin na - carotid artery strike combination and sent him to sleep. The rest of my journey was very peaceful, and passersby hailed me as a hero - Warrior Man

  2. #2
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    No.
    To many "I think" "He could've" "If he had" and so on.

    It doesn't matter about might have beens.

    In hindsight things are or they are not.

    Bruce lee was not a competitive fighter, never entered any sanctioned matches and that's that.

    Live with it. He wasn't a fighter in teh sense fo what is a fighter. He was an actor who amde martial arts movies.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  3. #3
    I believe that Bruce Lee was special in that he really was a fighter, and was fanatical about his martial arts training and development. Of course, wether the art he ended up with, could be defined as a TCMA, is a different story.....

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    No.
    To many "I think" "He could've" "If he had" and so on.

    It doesn't matter about might have beens.

    In hindsight things are or they are not.

    Bruce lee was not a competitive fighter, never entered any sanctioned matches and that's that.

    Live with it. He wasn't a fighter in teh sense fo what is a fighter. He was an actor who amde martial arts movies.
    So in order to be a fighter one has to "fight" successfully in sports tournaments?

    The cluessness of some of the people in this forum never ceases to amaze me, specially when some you guys are supposed to be "kung fu" teachers or even "sifus".......

    HW108

    PS. For your information, many TMAs were not designed to be used in sports tournaments. See, you learn something new every day.......

  5. #5
    oh dear lord

    1) I respect Dan Inosanto, but please realize that if Bruce Lee had never made a movie he'd have been a high school PE teacher, IE he has a very vested financial interest in the Bruce Lee persona

    2) That aside, saying "in my MIND" means nothing anyway... do you know how many "highly touted" prospects with great amateur careers do ZIP (ZERO) in pro boxing?

    3) Based upon Bruce's STUDENTS, ie people vested in his image, we have stories of Bruce winning some highschool boxing tournament. What does this mean? That he beat some other high school kids in a tournament, IF that did happen

    4) Roof top fights? LMFAO! Have you seen these fights!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2ewgpH4e_g

    5) The infamous "karate black belt". Aside from Bruce's students do we have ANY VERIFICATION? Bruce supposedly fought a guy who did karate. Did he take classes at the local YMCA maybe ? Again, these are STORIES told by people vested in the image... there is no independent info


    6) The Wong Jack Man thing has been done to death.. look it up

    7) Bob Wall? He'd likely be homeless if he didn't give lectures on Bruce Lee.

    People need to get over this crap
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    oh dear lord

    1) I respect Dan Inosanto, but please realize that if Bruce Lee had never made a movie he'd have been a high school PE teacher, IE he has a very vested financial interest in the Bruce Lee persona

    2) That aside, saying "in my MIND" means nothing anyway... do you know how many "highly touted" prospects with great amateur careers do ZIP (ZERO) in pro boxing?

    3) Based upon Bruce's STUDENTS, ie people vested in his image, we have stories of Bruce winning some highschool boxing tournament. What does this mean? That he beat some other high school kids in a tournament, IF that did happen

    4) Roof top fights? LMFAO! Have you seen these fights!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2ewgpH4e_g

    5) The infamous "karate black belt". Aside from Bruce's students do we have ANY VERIFICATION? Bruce supposedly fought a guy who did karate. Did he take classes at the local YMCA maybe ? Again, these are STORIES told by people vested in the image... there is no independent info


    6) The Wong Jack Man thing has been done to death.. look it up

    7) Bob Wall? He'd likely be homeless if he didn't give lectures on Bruce Lee.

    People need to get over this crap
    I wonder if the tone of your post would have been the same if Bruce Lee had been your teacher?

  7. #7
    Jun fan quan fa. jun fan boxing methods.

    there are books about jie quan dao.

    stances, theory, practice

    ---

    hopefully, some students may carry on and broaden or add on to JFQF.

    --

    if some fighters or real life fighting using JFQF, then his stuff is practical or applicable

    ---

    yip man was his teacher. yip man was legit and yip man movies may dramatize. but yip man and wc are real.

    I am looking forward to yip man 3 movies. since bruce lee showed up at the end of yip man 2.

    any hoo, yes bruce lee was a child actor in HK, then casting for green hornet, then----

  8. #8

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardwork108 View Post
    So in order to be a fighter one has to "fight" successfully in sports tournaments?

    The cluessness of some of the people in this forum never ceases to amaze me, specially when some you guys are supposed to be "kung fu" teachers or even "sifus".......

    HW108

    PS. For your information, many TMAs were not designed to be used in sports tournaments. See, you learn something new every day.......

    anyone can have a fight. that doesn't make them a fighter. By the logic you are using, any street thug is a fighter. in reality, he is just a person who has been in a fight. Lee did not fight for a living. Cung Le does. He is a fighter. Soldiers were fighters. Lee was an actor.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardwork108 View Post
    I wonder if the tone of your post would have been the same if Bruce Lee had been your teacher?
    given the degree of candor with which Dave (and myself) regularly speak about the reality of CTS, I believe that the answer would be "yes";

    anyway, the tone aside, the point is well-taken: Bruce Lee was first and foremost an actor; it doesn't mean he had no fighting skill, but it doesn't make him as good as many people like to paint him, i.e. - legendary / unstoppable - also, remember the context: he was dealing with people who fought out of a relatively rigid paradigm: whereas he took his WC and added in the flow of boxing and fencing, which is why he was so much more agile and maneuverable than pretty much anyone else at the time in the TMA world; he also trained very hard and certainly he obviously was very well conditioned not to mention intrinsically fast - so for the time he was an anomaly, but again, the average TMA skill level at that time was not what it is today (and part of the reason u have MMA is due to the artificial constraints of TMA in the US for so many decades);
    Last edited by taai gihk yahn; 07-24-2010 at 08:18 AM.

  11. #11
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    There is a difference between a fighter and martial artist. Bruce Lee was a great martial artist.
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  12. #12
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    Lee knocked-out Pu Chung, a Cai Li Fo fighter, in the roof tops of Hong Kong in a 1958 Full-Contact match. The match was refereed by Wong Shun Leung.[38][39]
    I find it pretty funny that much of this story was left out. The Choy Lee Fut guy beat bruce lee pretty bad in this fight. Bruce was scared and didn't want to continue fighting him. But, his sifu or coach at that time said to him "if you don't go out and fight him i will kick your arse myself" ...... so bruce went out swinging and yes beat the CLF out of his desperation.
    Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
    when he's around quick to ground and pound a clown
    Bruh we thought you knew better
    when it comes to head huntin, ain't no one can do it better

  13. #13
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    fuk bruce lee
    i pee on his grave

  14. #14
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    fuk bruce lee
    i pee on his grave
    The Police have been alerted. They will be processing your DNA that you left on his grave and will be contacting you very soon
    Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
    when he's around quick to ground and pound a clown
    Bruh we thought you knew better
    when it comes to head huntin, ain't no one can do it better

  15. #15
    In some cultures, peeing on another's grave is a sign of deep respect and devotion!

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