TMA inferior/Lacking?

[rogue]

As far as onestep sparring, if you aren't doing a decent amount of it in your own training, you are missing a key element. It is the primary tool that instructors use to develop finesse.

Finesse? I've done a lot of one step sparring and still use a variation of it still for beginners and for training some SD situations, but using it to develop finesse? I don't see it.

[taai gihk yahn]

so it basically boils down to semantics and people who think traditional arts have never evolved over the centuries and shouldnt either lol oh boy

well sure, ultimately, the distinction between so-called traditional and so-called non-traditional is arbitrary and relative; for myself, it's not either / or, but rather a continuum; however, if u noticed, I compared contemporary MT to Thai TMA as ontologically analagous to judo / jujitsu or WTF TKD to older Korean "kwans"; if u don't get that, fine, but please don't try your typical m.o. of glibly jumping to unwarranted conclusions, because it's intellectually sloppy;

An art cant be traditional unless it has forms....Nope

hey, I never said it had to be one way or the other, but I stated that many people would say if there weren't forms it's not traditional (just read around the forum for cryin' out loud, you'll see it); please pay more attention to your reading comprehension in the future, because it's tiresome to have to go correct that sort of thing;

Most of the Muay Thai in the U.S. isn't traditional because it isn't even Muay Thai. in some cases I barely sure that it is martial arts as we know it. Boxing coaches and BJJERS looking to diversify their business go to a MT camp and get a cert. It is straight toughman kickboxing.

riiiiight....

As far as onestep sparring, if you aren't doing a decent amount of it in your own training, you are missing a key element. It is the primary tool that instructors use to develop finesse.

riiiight...

So is WTF TKD a sport or a traditional art? You keep going back and fourth.

I don't believe that I have done so; could you please indicate where in my posts I have done this?

[goju]

well sure, ultimately, the distinction between so-called traditional and so-called non-traditional is arbitrary and relative; for myself, it's not either / or, but rather a continuum; however, if u noticed, I compared contemporary MT to Thai TMA as ontologically analagous to judo / jujitsu or WTF TKD to older Korean "kwans"; if u don't get that, fine, but please don't try your typical m.o. of glibly jumping to unwarranted conclusions, because it's intellectually sloppy;

i was merely cutting to the chase so to speak rather than beating around the bush with the topic. I didnt see a need to try to over analyze this discussion as from reading this forum its clear tma practioners cant even agree on what tma is.

The term ( like many others ) is silly to me and ive generally havent done much pondering over what i think it personally means rather im always amused at peoples wild interpretations of it and thus procede to question them about it and watch the nonsensical circle talking wheel of gibberish have a wirl.

[Frost]

don't you realize that it's a classic case of exception proving the rule? or something like that...

the point is that, you can occasionally make some of the TMA stuff "work", because it is outside of the usual "rhythm" of MMA; however, if u don't have a solid base in MMA, thai, boxing, wrestling, etc., u won't last long enough to get to the point where u can do that;

game over;

oh yes i do....the problem is when you point this out people ignore it or say its just because the others dont work as hard as they did

Just as they ignore the fact that most of the traditional stuff they did was in their teens, hell i did 4 years of horean martial arts but i dont call myself a TKD guy even they i do the occasional spinning kick and hook kick

[HumbleWCGuy]

WTF TKD is a completely modern sport where the true sports based practitioners can kick a well and often better than most out there. I've played with the good ones and came away very impressed by what damage they could do to me. Impressive athletes. I've also worked out with the bad flippy kick black belt club ones and let's just say was less than impressed that they couldn't hit or take any kind of hit.

If I remember correctly, the Rules require that you move someone with a kick to score. In any event the kicks have to be of quality. I am not sure what this guy is talking about with them being so sloppy and bad.

[HumbleWCGuy]

well sure, ultimately, the distinction between so-called traditional and so-called non-traditional is arbitrary and relative; for myself, it's not either / or, but rather a continuum; however, if u noticed, I compared contemporary MT to Thai TMA as ontologically analagous to judo / jujitsu or WTF TKD to older Korean "kwans"; if u don't get that, fine, but please don't try your typical m.o. of glibly jumping to unwarranted conclusions, because it's intellectually sloppy;


hey, I never said it had to be one way or the other, but I stated that many people would say if there weren't forms it's not traditional (just read around the forum for cryin' out loud, you'll see it); please pay more attention to your reading comprehension in the future, because it's tiresome to have to go correct that sort of thing;


riiiiight....


riiiight...


I don't believe that I have done so; could you please indicate where in my posts I have done this?

You are telling yourself a lot of nice stories unfortunately most of what you believe is false. You need to seriously alter your world view. Your definition of traditional is a moving target. If it doesn't work or you deem it to be "fancy" it must be traditional or is it forms that make the difference? So if Anderson Silva goes out and throws a side kick to the knee for an entire fight and uses a side stance is he using TKD or is it Muay Thai? It was effective so I suppose that it has to be Muay thai? What you call traditional is just LARPing. You have decided in your wisdom that Judo isn't traditional and it has forms and all the trappings of tradition. Moreover, I would be concerned about saying that a Judoka has the ability to defend himself outside of a "Judo situation."
You have decided that traditional is bad and whatever is good must not be traditional that smacks of a pretty uneducated view if you ask me.

[Frost]

I would have to see that come out of his mouth.
.[/QUOTE]
Ask and you shall recieve

Bas started karate at 14, left after a few years and restarted in thai at 21, this is from a quote of his from an interview “striking wise I would say that I learned the most at Mean Ho gym in Breda Holland.”

[HumbleWCGuy]

Ask and you shall recieve

Bas started karate at 14, left after a few years and restarted in thai at 21, this is from a quote of his from an interview “striking wise I would say that I learned the most at Mean Ho gym in Breda Holland.”

No link bye the way.
Okay, so what does that mean? Muay thai i better than than Kyokushin. His Muay Thai Instructor was better than his kickboxing instructor? Bas was not mature enough physically and mentally to learn kyo Kushin at the level that he learned MT? Bas Finally committed himself to martial arts when he began studying Muay Thai? Also, are you guys aware that Kyokushin was invented in the mid to late 20th century?

[Dragonzbane76]

So if Anderson Silva goes out and throws a side kick to the knee for an entire fight and uses a side stance is he using TKD or is it Muay Thai?

well considering thai usually doesn't fight from a "side stance" or throw side kicks to the knee (presuming you mean thrusting) I think we can deduce.

[HumbleWCGuy]

well considering thai usually doesn't fight from a "side stance" or throw side kicks to the knee (presuming you mean thrusting) I think we can deduce.

Just wrong. Watch Anderson Silva versus thales leites. Also, if you had a better eye you would also notice that Anderson puts a lot more snap into his kicks than a MT fighter does. Although, as I said, MT is traditional but since people are trying to create a traditional straw man to knock down

[HumbleWCGuy]

oh yes i do....the problem is when you point this out people ignore it or say its just because the others dont work as hard as they did

Just as they ignore the fact that most of the traditional stuff they did was in their teens, hell i did 4 years of horean martial arts but i dont call myself a TKD guy even they i do the occasional spinning kick and hook kick

What it really boils down to is the fact that you guys are creating a traditional straw man to knock down. Traditional is your name for anything that you deem. It really has nothing to do with the actual length of tradition which is a key component of traditional.

[Dragonzbane76]

Just wrong. Watch Anderson Silva versus thales leites. Also, if you had a better eye you would also notice that Anderson puts a lot more snap into his kicks than a MT fighter does. Although, as I said, MT is traditional but since people are trying to create a traditional straw man to knock down

you didn't even read what I wrote did you? seriously.

all I stated was MT really doesn't use a "side stance" and you somehow just blew that up into a blimp. really, really, i mean come on, I don't care one way or another is anderson silva takes a dump upside down into his own mouth. I'm not creating a dam thing to knock down just commenting on the fact that MT doesn't have a "side stance per say" they fight out of. So read the next time instead of going off on a tangent.

[Dragonzbane76]

found this on another forum. thought it kinda went with this thread.

any thoughts??

I can define TMA in two words: CULT-MENTALITY.

The glorification of kata is the heart of Bullshido; i.e. they take something crude and primitive, that was simply used as the cheapest method by which a third-world military dictatorship taught H2H combat to legions of illiterate superstitious soldiers, hundreds or thousands of years ago-- and so it became essentially caveman "warrior-rituals--" and these TMA cultists think they've freaking discovered The Ark of the Covenant, i.e. some type of magical Indiana-Jones "lost magical religious-secret'" that exceeds all modern weapons including the H-bomb, just like in the movies.

Hell, you should see the crap that these clueless internet Seagal-fanwankers spew about aikido, because they say "it was designed for war" Yeah, so were the lance, pike and plate armor, but gimme a little bitty .22 pistol anyday against that.

But still, the anti-scientific TMA-cultists go on swilling the kool-aid and chanting the mantra's about how TMA is better than all modern MMA because it's based on "ancient Chinese secret!" but that these Calgon-techniques are "too dangerous to test" (again like the Ark of the Covenant in Indiana Jones is too dangerous to open--when in REALITY, it was just a sort of portable Vatican-in-a-box used by Jews who were lost in the desert for 40 years because Moses wouldn't ask for directions).

In short, TMA's like any cult: i.e. it's a conceit by losers in denial-- including pretend-guru "masters" who pretend to have some great secret, and peer-approval by fellow losers and cultists... both of which are more addictive to losers than crack-cocaine.

And so they sail off into cult fantasy-land, where a "chi-strike" can destroy an M-1 tank.

(CLOSE YOUR EYES! DON'T LOOK, IT'LL DESTROY YOU! :-D

Whatever you think about Penn & Teller, you have to admit they nailed it with regard to TMA-losers, except for expressly naming it as a cult.

[HumbleWCGuy]

you didn't even read what I wrote did you? seriously.

all I stated was MT really doesn't use a "side stance" and you somehow just blew that up into a blimp. really, really, i mean come on, I don't care one way or another is anderson silva takes a dump upside down into his own mouth. I'm not creating a dam thing to knock down just commenting on the fact that MT doesn't have a "side stance per say" they fight out of. So read the next time instead of going off on a tangent.

Therefore, if MT doesn't use a side stance it must be something else. That is why you are just flat out wrong.

The problem isn't my reading. It is the fact that you can't manage to track a point through a thread.

[HumbleWCGuy]

found this on another forum. thought it kinda went with this thread.

any thoughts??

Would you give us a clear definition of what TMA is. I will paraphrase to save you the trouble "It's Kata. No it's ineffective arts. No it's Old. No it's..."

Cult mentality is pretty common in mma gyms. Look on these boards and all you see are Joe Rogan Parrots.

Here are some cultist mma behaviors.
-Every MMA Gym has the figurative magic bullet.
-MMA instructors still don't want you going elsewhere as it cuts into there profits
-MMA gyms sit and talk about every other gym to discourage students from trying something else.


Doesn't it seem kind of contradictory to call one's self a MMAist and yet be so down on other martial arts? For example, I have always strove to take away useful elements from other arts. I never have been concerned that Kuk sool wan is a fraud. I have always tried to understand their training and take what good I could from it. Are you a mmaist or a grappler with half a$$ed kickboxing? That seems like a pretty effective combination, but it is barely MMA in the truest sense.