Something to think about

[SevenStar]

Some of the comments in another thread reminded me of this old song by skee lo (yeah the guy who made I wish) what he says in the first verse in one of the realest things I've read in terms of fighting (as written in song lyrics) and really does hold true. It sort of illustrates why we advocate the need for live training:


"I used to think that I was hard
The kind of kid you don't wanna mess wit'
I'll fight you and your bodyguard
I was illeterate, we're talkin' gibberish
But never considerate of the way I treated friends
I would fight ten kids and I would fly all heads
I would even fight dragons 'til they'd be dead
I would presidents and the man, you bet
But it's just too bad because I ain't fought yet
You see, I took a slug at no one
But if I ever did, I'd have to show one
That I was like, able to wreck it
I thought I knew but I didn't know
That all the talk in the world doesn't make you a pro
And so, came my first real fight in the hood
I would bash a skull, if I could
But that's when these kids wrecked my world, swept my feet up
Straight got ill and I was nearly killed
It never crossed my mind"

[rogue]

Hey 7*,
Gotta ask what live training is to you.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Some of the comments in another thread reminded me of this old song by skee lo (yeah the guy who made I wish) what he says in the first verse in one of the realest things I've read in terms of fighting (as written in song lyrics) and really does hold true. It sort of illustrates why we advocate the need for live training:

Interestingly, I am advocating "alive" training under a scenario that mma schools will often ignore and you came an started a new thread to beat up a straw man. Interesting...

[SevenStar]

Interestingly, I am advocating "alive" training under a scenario that mma schools will often ignore and you came an started a new thread to beat up a straw man. Interesting...

This thread wasn't based off of that comment, if you are referring to the one I think you are.

[SevenStar]

Hey 7*,
Gotta ask what live training is to you.

In a nutshell, training with resistance, be it in the form of sparring, scenario training, drilling or a combo of all of the above.

[David Jamieson]

In a nutshell, training with resistance, be it in the form of sparring, scenario training, drilling or a combo of all of the above.

how do you learn what to use in sparring? drilling? combos? where does that training come in befoer you are fully formed as a fighter?

where is structure? where is breathing? where is ranging? where is force application?

[SevenStar]

how do you learn what to use in sparring? drilling? combos? where does that training come in befoer you are fully formed as a fighter?

where is structure? where is breathing? where is ranging? where is force application?

part of the class. I've never, other than in CMA had separate instruction on breathing. structure you learn while going over techniques before working them live. ranging you discuss, but get down pat while working live.

Work calls, but I'll be back in an hour or so.

[rogue]

In a nutshell, training with resistance, be it in the form of sparring, scenario training, drilling or a combo of all of the above.

Thanks 7. I think there's more to training in what folks call alive than that. At least from the way I see things and especially if someone is trying to train self defense. Besides resistance I think environment needs to be changed and wild cards thrown in. Like I said, that's just what I've been doing, but it sure doesn't make one invincible.

[Frost]

how do you learn what to use in sparring? drilling? combos? where does that training come in befoer you are fully formed as a fighter?

where is structure? where is breathing? where is ranging? where is force application?

drilling, pad work, structure testing etc can all be done alive..and indeed should be done alive.... what’s the point in training breathing ,ranging, structure etc in an non alive environment and then expecting the student to remember how to use it in an alive setting when being exposed to a totaly different stimulus?

[SevenStar]

Thanks 7. I think there's more to training in what folks call alive than that. At least from the way I see things and especially if someone is trying to train self defense. Besides resistance I think environment needs to be changed and wild cards thrown in. Like I said, that's just what I've been doing, but it sure doesn't make one invincible.

I definitely don't disagree with that. We have had days (though rare) in bjj and judo where you "come as you are" - you dress like you would daily and train in your normal clothes. we did that in jun fan / jkd as well. The idea was that in your normal clothing, which may be more restrictive than what you train in, can you still move the same way? how different is it when you are barefoot as opposed to wearing doc marten's, etc. As I stated to humbleguy elsewhere, I believe such adaptations aren't extremely hard, hence the mma guys at work having no issues adjusting to real fights vs. the ring, but I definitely see merit in that.

[Yao Sing]

We used to do that in the first Kenpo school (which was my first formal training) I attended. We were to dress as we would on any given day or wear our typical work clothes so we could make adjustments if necessary or just get used to doing the moves in our regular clothes.

That was early 70's.

[David Jamieson]

drilling, pad work, structure testing etc can all be done alive..and indeed should be done alive.... what’s the point in training breathing ,ranging, structure etc in an non alive environment and then expecting the student to remember how to use it in an alive setting when being exposed to a totaly different stimulus?

put down the matt thornton book and back away.

exactly how would a bag drill be trained "dead"?
Mitts? pads? How would one go about being dead on these?

No offense guy, but the whole idea of "alive" training is marketing bs.
there is no such thing as alive training. you are either trainingf or you are not.

I train kungfu, i work a heavy bag, thai pads, mitts, sparring, drills, etc.

there is nothing dead about my workout.

There are a lot of people out there who are willing to openly accept blanket statements about places that don't actually exist. these statements are used to prop up training marketed by otehr dudes who wrap a whole new mystic around their brand of pizza.

In training these days, more often tahn not, what is old becomes new again. caveman workouts, nutrition, kettel bells, functional strength work...this is all going BACKWARDS in time to find answers to training scenarios that were destroyed by marketing crap combined with an increasing fat and stupid population who refuse to believe that hard work is what is required to be in and maintain optimal phyicality.

It's easy to sell "alive" to people who have been trained poorly ro who have never trained and can't wrap tehir head around teh effort it takes to become proficient at kungfu.

The schoolboy mentality and errors in thinking around what fighting is is astounding!

But regurgitating other peoples marketing ideas that aren't anything new and pronouncing them as profound and as something that is superior to methods of training that are as old as dirt. Well that's naive.

There is nothing new. Not in mma, not in tma. It's all old. we've been punching each other in the face since the beginning of time.

[Frost]

put down the matt thornton book and back away.

exactly how would a bag drill be trained "dead"?
Mitts? pads? How would one go about being dead on these?

No offense guy, but the whole idea of "alive" training is marketing bs.
there is no such thing as alive training. you are either trainingf or you are not.

I train kungfu, i work a heavy bag, thai pads, mitts, sparring, drills, etc.

there is nothing dead about my workout.

There are a lot of people out there who are willing to openly accept blanket statements about places that don't actually exist. these statements are used to prop up training marketed by otehr dudes who wrap a whole new mystic around their brand of pizza.

In training these days, more often tahn not, what is old becomes new again. caveman workouts, nutrition, kettel bells, functional strength work...this is all going BACKWARDS in time to find answers to training scenarios that were destroyed by marketing crap combined with an increasing fat and stupid population who refuse to believe that hard work is what is required to be in and maintain optimal phyicality.

It's easy to sell "alive" to people who have been trained poorly ro who have never trained and can't wrap tehir head around teh effort it takes to become proficient at kungfu.

The schoolboy mentality and errors in thinking around what fighting is is astounding!

But regurgitating other peoples marketing ideas that aren't anything new and pronouncing them as profound and as something that is superior to methods of training that are as old as dirt. Well that's naive.

There is nothing new. Not in mma, not in tma. It's all old. we've been punching each other in the face since the beginning of time.

nice condescending opening to your post...about what I expect from you to be honest ....

I haven’t read his book, but I have actually trained with him and several other SBG gyms and trained out of affiliate gyms of there’s, now I know you haven't because if you have you wouldn’t be making such silly remarks about his theories and would probably actually understand what you are talking about for once.

Unlike some I don’t accept blanket statements about anything I actually research things so I understand them before I make comments on them and look like a horses arse

I have news for you: caveman work outs, kettle bells and functional training ARE marketing bull, go read up on some actual current strength and conditioning theories before calling things bull and try to understand things before you comment on them

[rogue]

OK, I'll admit that I like Thorton's idea of training, I even like that he's preaching to the JKD folks, but when I hear these guys having theories that's where you lose me.

But, I'll bite. What theories has Thorton come up with? BTW, what's his professional background in?