Inquiry about Bak Fu Pai

[Syn7]

So, for example, if I get unethical and childish like Ross and play with his teacher's photo that would be legal yes? Although am not unethical as Ross is.

Am an athlete or supporter,that can be judged live...and I consider myself a practitionar of martial arts since 1976.

omg how old are you? after i had a look at doo wais message board i really thought you guys were kids... the amount of crazy lacy bickering is absolutely staggering... i havent seen enough of the style to really judge for myself, but based on doo wais posts and those who claim to be able to "speak for him" i was left shaking my head... even doo wai acts like a child with the bickering... incredible... unbelievable how petty that board is... i went straight to the last page, saw like 4 legit posts and then after that 95% were jim lacy threads... it doesnt make you guys look good as "ethical" people... if it was me, i would just ignore the guy already, its clear he's a moron, if its even him... whether it is or isnt is irrelevant though. you all walk right into his bull**** headfirst with a very immature gusto... so how old are you? are you a doctor for real? doctor of what?

and why did you ban me from the youtube comments? i dont know what i said that was so offensive but apparently you guys feel the need to censor what is written about your sifu...

[taai gihk yahn]

if it was me, i would just ignore the guy already, its clear he's a moron, if its even him... whether it is or isnt is irrelevant though. you all walk right into his bull**** headfirst with a very immature gusto...

my understanding is that this whole Lacy dialogue is self-generated; I forget how / where this came up, but suposedly they post as Lacy to generate controversy and then "answer" him in a way that seems to trump him;
I think Doo Wai has lost his marbles a bit - seems like he acts like a typical paranoid / schizoid type; I think he's been spinning his yarn about BFP for so long that he believes it (I mean, c'mon, if u can't see what he does is basically re-hashed bok mei; and if not, it's so similar it is essentially the same); and he performs hie forms horribly - and LMAO at the "excuse" that he's 80 y/o - last I recall, in TCMA the older u got, the better you were supposed to get? funy how it's convenitly flipped around here; and also, fine, if he's 80 maybe he won't move w the same power, speed, intensity - but the fluidity, the CONNECTION of the entire body will be evident - there are several vids of "old guys" doing their thing out there from various styles, and what they all possess is that integrated movement quality - w DooWai, he's all over the place (my favoite is how he's got his head turned away from the direction he moves / does things, looking kinda off to the lower right diagonal - or is that a strategy of BFP, not to look at what u r doing?)

so how old are you? are you a doctor for real? doctor of what?

he's a Family Practice "specialist" in Beirut - it's basically the most generalized area of medicine, primary care medicine in all it's glory (u know, kids w/sniffles and old ladies w/lower extremity venous pooling); last he told, he was going to emigrate to the US and get a license to practice here (I hope he doesn't think that insect resurrection is part of USMLE...)

and why did you ban me from the youtube comments? i dont know what i said that was so offensive but apparently you guys feel the need to censor what is written about your sifu...

this is a standard m.o. of their's - they seem to want absolute ctrl of the commentary, so if u r deemed a loose thread, out u go!

[TAO YIN]

Syn7,

Hello, how are you? See, proper! Seriously, thank you very much for responding, properly. I am not used to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH3QeNoqmn8

That is the video that I was talking about as being, so-so. It is so so from about the 41 second mark. Nice back fists followed by a nailing kick with a smashing bridge strike. Throughout the video, he is going pretty fast. Sure, his posture isn't as low as it could be. Again he is going fast. If he has soft ging for real, you wouldn't see it in his body anyways...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjleYT8oSog

That is another video, of a master doing 9 step push. Both different both doing different things. One is harder, one is softer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6zlaIl0yh0

That is Tyson. Look at his shadow boxing. Good somewhat stationary, Horse no T no V stance. Great Bil Jee. Great Chum Choy. Great Uppercut.


My point in telling Jamieson that was basically, why waste time? I think I ended it with knifes. Why not guns? Knifes are just watered down versions of guns. Right?

But, in my opinion, when you break Bak Mei down to it's simplest stuff, it is just (fancy) for lack of a better word, boxing. There are only so many different ways the hands will move to hit a person and it be effective. Bak Mei has a few more than boxing, but the bare elements of it are basically the same. I should say the same as Peek a Boo, Boxing. That is taking away the Kum La Saus, and Tiger Claws. The idea being, get in close, then maim. Boxing has 4 hands right? Bak Mei has 8? Inside Bak Mei's 8 are boxings 4. Maybe save for a hook?

I am familiar with all of the Bak Mei forms. Bak Mei Kung Fu is like all other Kung Fu, it looks good until you get smacked in the face by a right cross. After that happens, Fung Kuil doesn't work very well. You go back to the basics of the art after that, and see what you can come up with. Usually after that, the criss cross hands opening up Mung Fu Chut Lum doesn't help, unless you are using the knee that is. Those are just some connections I can write at the moment.

To answer your question, no I don't think the senior is always the best example. Sometimes, they are the best example. If the senior is always the best, the style will become much worse over time.

Anyhow, wrote to much there. Bad habit. Nice talking to you though. Cheers!



I forgot to mention because you didn't say this to me. But I don't really like Occam's Razor when it comes to people. Psychologically, people have a pretty bad habit of screwing Occam's Razor in many different ways. People and cultures are too subjective for Occam's Razor to work on them all of the time.

[Yum Cha]

...But, in my opinion, when you break Bak Mei down to it's simplest stuff, it is just (fancy) for lack of a better word, boxing. There are only so many different ways the hands will move to hit a person and it be effective. Bak Mei has a few more than boxing, but the bare elements of it are basically the same. I should say the same as Peek a Boo, Boxing. That is taking away the Kum La Saus, and Tiger Claws. The idea being, get in close, then maim. Boxing has 4 hands right? Bak Mei has 8? Inside Bak Mei's 8 are boxings 4. Maybe save for a hook?

I am familiar with all of the Bak Mei forms. Bak Mei Kung Fu is like all other Kung Fu, it looks good until you get smacked in the face by a right cross. After that happens, Fung Kuil doesn't work very well. You go back to the basics of the art after that, and see what you can come up with. Usually after that, the criss cross hands opening up Mung Fu Chut Lum doesn't help, unless you are using the knee that is. Those are just some connections I can write at the moment..

In all honesty, shouldn't you say this is the Yau Kung Mun and White Tiger you learned from Gary, that YOU reckon is the same as Pak Mei?

[Syn7]

interesting... lemme digest that then i'll respond... one thing ive noticed about bak mei tho, after the first few forms, the style starts to morph into something, for lack of better words, 'more'... dont get me wrong, the fundamentals are still there but theres 'more'... if you only mastered up to ying jow, you couldnt really say that you know bak mei... im still pretty new to this style but im liking it so far... how many forms have you seen?

i always liked tysons style. pretty useless from the outside but once inside the guy was a menace...

as for occams razor, its an assumption after all, so it should never be your final opinion, but its a great place to start...

[Syn7]

I am familiar with all of the Bak Mei forms. Bak Mei Kung Fu is like all other Kung Fu, it looks good until you get smacked in the face by a right cross. After that happens, Fung Kuil doesn't work very well. You go back to the basics of the art after that, and see what you can come up with. Usually after that, the criss cross hands opening up Mung Fu Chut Lum doesn't help, unless you are using the knee that is. Those are just some connections I can write at the moment.

you learned bak mei from gary? he's in oz right... you are too? please tell me you train in peson... i have some serious fundamental disagreements with online martial arts courses... if you are in oz, are you familiar with the yaolin association?

anyways, yeah i been talking to heartfield (is that his name? fierce tiger?) on youtube and we arent practicing the same bak mei... like, its not a lil bit diff, its alot different... there are a few similarities but, its not the same... can you list the forms in order for me.... youve learned em all? seen them all?

[Yum Cha]

interesting... lemme digest that then i'll respond... one thing ive noticed about bak mei tho, after the first few forms, the style starts to morph into something, for lack of better words, 'more'... dont get me wrong, the fundamentals are still there but theres 'more'... if you only mastered up to ying jow, you couldnt really say that you know bak mei... im still pretty new to this style but im liking it so far...

And you can already tell the difference, well done. Some guys never pick it up.

[Syn7]

To answer your question, no I don't think the senior is always the best example. Sometimes, they are the best example. If the senior is always the best, the style will become much worse over time.

no i mean, do you believe the senior SHOULD be the best example... i dont mean with the hands, obviously the well accomplished middle agers are gonna look better in demo to a 90 year old... i mean best example in an all encompassing manner? to me, martial arts is more than fighting... if i wanted to be the best fighter i would spend more time fighting, less time breathing... feel me?

[Syn7]

And you can already tell the difference, well done. Some guys never pick it up.

thanx...

[Dr.Harut]

I am happy with my "Family Medicine" practice...and right now am having a small lunch break in my office, whats wrong about it? I am my own boss and thanks God my income is well...as for emigrating...when I get my papers done, will emigrate to US..its taking years to get papers done...The reason for me doing the necessary documental papers for emigration is that middle east will not have a peaceful time, and I don't want my kids to get grown up in non-stable environment, otherwise am well in all aspects.

[taai gihk yahn]

I am happy with my "Family Medicine" practice...and right now am having a small lunch break in my office, whats wrong about it?

nothing, but it's hardly critical care; although if u include resuscitating dead insects and decapitated rodents, I suppose it could be considered that;

I am my own boss and thanks God my income is well...as for emigrating...when I get my papers done, will emigrate to US..its taking years to get papers done...The reason for me doing the necessary documental papers for emigration is that middle east will not have a peaceful time, and I don't want my kids to get grown up in non-stable environment, otherwise am well in all aspects.

dude, in all seriousness, why bother coming to the US? assuming you can get a green card (which takes a few years at this point), you realize that it will take you somewhere around 5 - 7 years to get licensed here, and that's assuming you pass USMLE Steps 1 - 3, TOEFL and CSA, get your ECFMG certification, match for a residency as a FMG (although that shouldn't be too hard for FP, especially if you apply to some of the crappier hospitals in Queens or Brooklyn, assuming you come to NYC; of course, there's always Fifth Pathway, if you don't mind living in the middle of nowhere for several years) and pass your licensure and boards; then you have to get set up somewhere, and if it's your own practice, all I can say is welcome to the wild world of Medicare, Medicaid, Worker's Comp and health-care reform (meaning that your earning potential isn't going to b more than $200,000 K per year absolute tops, and you are going to work like a dog for that)...
I;m not saying this to be a jerk, seriously, but you may have no idea what you are in for; also, i hope u have a well-stocked bank account, because the whole INS thing, assuming you have an attorney (which I strongly recommend, otherwise u r going to get screwed by the INS system one way or another), is going to cost at absolute minimum something like $3,000.00 in fees over however many years it takes (and if you are brining family, it's going to be quite a bit more), and the USMLE / ECFMG bit ain't cheap either; not to mention that you won't even be able to work as a physician the entire time you are applying / testing;
why not just move to Turkey, Syria or Jordan? or try Germany, or Netherlands or Scandinavia that has to be easier...

[TAO YIN]

Syn7,

I learned most of my material from my Sifu, yes. I am not in OZ, but lived there in his school for a while, traveled back, and talk on the internet. He teaches Yau Kung Mun too. You know Yau Kung Mun? It is from Har Hon Hung. He was one of CLC's top disciples in the beginning in Guangzhou. Our hand forms there are the same (save a few moves for each form) that you find in Hong Kong Bak Mei more or less. You can easily find some sites that list those hand forms. The internal Yau Kung Mun is different though. Creates a whole different energy. My Sifu, also taught me Bak Fu, O Mei Bak Mei, and the differences between all of them.

Also, I lived in China for 4 years, heading around the country training what styles I could and testing what I had learned out. Traveled around lots there, Thailand for Muay Thai, etc...

I remember in Guangzhou and around checking the Bak Mei guys out there and having a few friends, there Bak Mei had the same hand forms. The energy was different, but that was akin to the Sifu rather than the forms, which is what you will find more than anything in styles. No two people teach and do the same. That is where the differences occur. The forms don't really cause as much of a difference as the people teaching them do...

In Foshan, there Bak Mei is very different. They go off in a different way than any of CLC's boys. Is that what kind of Bak Mei you study? It is good stuff. I met a few Foshan guys in Foshan, they had excellent hands. The Fishmonger's Fu looks good too.

If you are talking about the forms that come from CLC's boys, I have learned most of them and definitely seen all of them and their variations, save for a few weapon forms. Rather than list them, which form are you interested in discussing?

About the senior question, I hope to agree with you and say yes in most cases. But, it's not a perfect world. Some senior Kung Fu practitioners are, idiots...


Yum Cha,

Do you really want to get going on this? That's cool. When did you change your horse stance from Sigung Leung's relaxed horse to Ah Sing's inverted knees horse? Was that before or after you left Sigung Leung? Who was it that your now Sigung learned from before he went to CLC in the end? Wonder if his horse was different before he went to CLC? HHH must have taught him differently before he went to CLC, right?

[Jorge]

And you can already tell the difference, well done. Some guys never pick it up.

Yum Cha,

I think sifu demoed the Omie Pak Mei, because it is different to CLCs. CLCs is very hakka'ish and Omei's isn't!

And your right! We dont do things the same...I've seen your vids. We Ha Hum Batt Boy, we dont hunch over the way you guys do. Nor do we train Jik Bo the way you performed in your vid. Your sut choy looks like it was being pushed out and we dont train it like that either. Matter of fact, I've never seen any Pak Mei perform it the way you did.

I really didn't understand what you ment before, but after seeing the vid, I do know.


Tao - its cool Big Bro! Have you seen his Jik Bo...They are different then us! Even if our Sijo and Sigung was a major player in teaching there line, but it seems they have gone else where with theres. Which is cool!


Buby

[Syn7]

If you are talking about the forms that come from CLC's boys, I have learned most of them and definitely seen all of them and their variations, save for a few weapon forms. Rather than list them, which form are you interested in discussing?

oh i have a list of the forms at my school... i would like a list of all your clc bak mei forms in order to see the differences in your curriculum... one obviously cant learn it all from a list of forms but its a starting point for finding either similarities or differences...

how many forms have you learned from clc bakmei???

nah i aint foshan... im clc hk... i dont like the foshan asmuch from what i can see... i like the guy in france tho, his power is nice... dude is a skyscraper of a man... we've chatted it up a bit and he's a good guy, i respect him and his thang... i still dont know how i feel about dragon house... i know i dont like dragon houses attitudes, from what ive seen(i reserve judgement on further study) but the juries still out on the forms... he has power but he seems like a roid monkey thuggish type to me... from what ive seen so far, his ego is just right out of control... but, again. i gotta mention that im still looking into it and reserve the right to change my mind at any time...

[Syn7]

I think sifu demoed the Omie Pak Mei, because it is different to CLCs. CLCs is very hakka'ish and Omei's isn't!

i watched that vid you posted and a few more in the links on that youtube page and heartfield told me that it wasnt clc bak mei in that vid...

im clc hk and its "hakka'ish"...

also, i heard before yall talkin bout the back thing... we dont have that hollowback thing like you see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwBOeRSnDWc

it looks more like this(this isnt us, i just did a quick search to find something somewhat similar, although these are just kids and arent that good, yet):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JerBPUcC0M

how many of yall learn via internet or video exchange??? what do all you guys think about this? personally, i find this to be a substandard method of teaching and learning... its one thing if you learn a style then move away and use video to keep in touch with ur sifu and get some pointers and limited corrections but as a way of starting from scratch and learning a whole system? nah, i dont feel thats a good idea... ive heard people say "even colleges teach courses over the net now" as some sort of justification... but to me that speaks volumes... it screams to me that they dont truly understand whats going on here... my sifu uses his eyes and hands to correct us or make a point and i dont think i would be anywhere near where i am without that... like the time he "lightly" chopped me in the neck to make a point, it wasnt very hard but i had that electric shock thang all down my right side and it even numbed me up for a few minutes... it was an invaluable learning experience that could never have happened over a webcam... i can give a million examples...