Internal IP training

[Ngfamilymember]

I love these type of conversations.

Train hard and train well,
-Ngfamilymember

[teetsao]

ngfamilymember, do you want to take over as we have the same training??
ten tigers, cause nobody in here would beleive me.

[TenTigers]

ngfamilymember, do you want to take over as we have the same training??
ten tigers, cause nobody in here would beleive me.

if you'd prefer, you can PM me...

[sanjuro_ronin]

I would go a little further and say that the effects of the short effortless slap will also define how "internal" the strike was.

I would agree with that.

I would take this a little further and say that some correct structures and alignments are not so apparent, and can only be discovered and developed through correct training with a knowledgeable sifu.

Yes, and no, a sifu can only take you so far.

Internals, also refer to, at least in some styles, to the development of internal muscles, sinews and tendons, as to aid strength and power release, among other significant things

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All muscles are internal dude.

IMHO, even a well executed boxing technique cannot be defined as an Internal technique in the same way as one would describe a Hsing I or Chow Gar strike.

Interesting, because high level IMA say the opposite.
I think you should ask Ip Shui, if you get a chance, about that, supposedly hey thinks very highly of western boxing, as do most TCMA sifu's.

[sanjuro_ronin]

ngfamilymember, do you want to take over as we have the same training??
ten tigers, cause nobody in here would beleive me.

Well, that's just it, the high level stuff is a different beast altogether and even though it all can be explained by biomechanics, it doesn't change the fact that "explanations never won converts".

[Ngfamilymember]

Well, that's just it, the high level stuff is a different beast altogether and even though it all can be explained by biomechanics, it doesn't change the fact that "explanations never won converts".

well said...

ngfamilymember, do you want to take over as we have the same training??
ten tigers, cause nobody in here would beleive me.

And no, I don't really have anything much to add, Some of us where fortunate to learn some of the unorthodoxed, esoteric methods passed on by Dr. John Winglok Ng and even though our teacher published articles on the basic elements of such methods, the discussion can be very vast sometimes and time consuming. The other thing though, is it is quite simple too, after you get past all the little tib-bits of this and that, it all boils down to proper mechanics, intent, and simple Faith.

I was just adding that I love these conversations, not because I feel I have nothing to offer or am too good to offer anything, it's just becoming a lost art and there are those who are in the "know" and still keep some of the knowledge alive and kicking.

Thanks, take care.
-Ngfamilymember

[MysteriousPower]

Internal iron palm training? How do you people walk around in fantasy land all day? It must be nice being on drugs and living in a fog your whole martial arts life.



If Mike Tyson hit your student I bet it would hurt a lot more than the strike you dealt him. He would probably say, "I felt that punch come out of my ass". Grow up

[sanjuro_ronin]

Rookies

[Hardwork108]

Yes, and no, a sifu can only take you so far.

Well, the impetus primarily comes from the student. However, without a knowledgeble sifu, all the will and effort in the world will get you only so far.
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All muscles are internal dude.

Maybe I did not express myself correctly, there are muscles that are apparent, like the six packs. However, there are training methodologies that will give you a hard stomach where there are no apparent six packs. And then there are the tendons and so on.

Interesting, because high level IMA say the opposite.
I think you should ask Ip Shui, if you get a chance, about that, supposedly hey thinks very highly of western boxing, as do most TCMA sifu's.

My Chow Gar sifu also has a high opinion of boxing and admires their relaxed movements. However, he would never refer to boxing as an internal art.

And I agree with you as many TCMA-ists have a healthy opinion of boxing.

[Hardwork108]

Internal iron palm training?

It exists and is as real as the universe that you live in, but just like the universe not many understand its history and potential.

How do you people walk around in fantasy land all day?

It has nothing to do with fantasy, but knowledge based reality.

It must be nice being on drugs and living in a fog your whole martial arts life.

If Mike Tyson hit your student I bet it would hurt a lot more than the strike you dealt him. He would probably say, "I felt that punch come out of my ass". Grow up

He would say that, unless he had trained in IRON BODY....

[teetsao]

mysterious power, just because you have no clue as to what is being discussed here doesnt mean it doesnt exist.
no one is delusional, none of us would want to fight mike tyson, however if we had to, now would be the time as he has been out of training for over a decade,and i understand his life style is not condusive of a ring fighter. i am sure he still has some of it in him and could hit like a freight train. no one would try to defend themselves against him as you would a normal person.
i am surprised however that you didn t say "bruce lee", LOL, LOL

[sanjuro_ronin]

Well, the impetus primarily comes from the student. However, without a knowledgeble sifu, all the will and effort in the world will get you only so far.

Two way street, a Sifu can only hold your hand for so long and then he becomes a crutch.

My Chow Gar sifu also has a high opinion of boxing and admires their relaxed movements. However, he would never refer to boxing as an internal art.

And there are many IMA that would disagree with him, William CC Chen is one, for example.

Internal is what internal does...

[taai gihk yahn]

Internal is what internal does...

actually, I think that one can look at so-called "internal" in one of two ways: training and outcome / effect

if we use training medthodology (the path up the mountain) as the yardstick by which we measure the relative "internalicity" of a given system, of course we can't say that boxing or wrestling are "internal" in the same way that something like taiji or even some of the hakka systems (e.g. - SPM, Chow Ga) are; that is because the focus, priorities, cultural context, etc. are very different from one to the other;

however, if we look at outcome / effect (the "top" of the mountain), we can see that (good) wrestlers develop what essentially is the equivalent of "teng ging" (listening skill), "pang ging" (uprooting), "gan" (rootedness) etc. to the point of being essentially indistinguishable from a skilled taiji player; and boxers, in my estimation, tend to be pretty good at delivering "fa jing" (power issuance) when they strike using pretty much the same mechanics as a xing yi or taiji guy does; similarly, boxing footwork is an excellent example of "hin gung" or lightness skill (in the realistic sesnse, not in the "run up a wall" artifact)

so the question is - if someone trains a so-called "interal" system and is not able to produce the results that a boxer / wrestler produces, who is ultimately manifesting "internal" principles?

[MysteriousPower]

actually, I think that one can look at so-called "internal" in one of two ways: training and outcome / effect

if we use training medthodology (the path up the mountain) as the yardstick by which we measure the relative "internalicity" of a given system, of course we can't say that boxing or wrestling are "internal" in the same way that something like taiji or even some of the hakka systems (e.g. - SPM, Chow Ga) are; that is because the focus, priorities, cultural context, etc. are very different from one to the other;

however, if we look at outcome / effect (the "top" of the mountain), we can see that (good) wrestlers develop what essentially is the equivalent of "teng ging" (listening skill), "pang ging" (uprooting), "gan" (rootedness) etc. to the point of being essentially indistinguishable from a skilled taiji player; and boxers, in my estimation, tend to be pretty good at delivering "fa jing" (power issuance) when they strike using pretty much the same mechanics as a xing yi or taiji guy does; similarly, boxing footwork is an excellent example of "hin gung" or lightness skill (in the realistic sesnse, not in the "run up a wall" artifact)

so the question is - if someone trains a so-called "interal" system and is not able to produce the results that a boxer / wrestler produces, who is ultimately manifesting "internal" principles?

Nice post.

[David Jamieson]

actually, I think that one can look at so-called "internal" in one of two ways: training and outcome / effect

if we use training medthodology (the path up the mountain) as the yardstick by which we measure the relative "internalicity" of a given system, of course we can't say that boxing or wrestling are "internal" in the same way that something like taiji or even some of the hakka systems (e.g. - SPM, Chow Ga) are; that is because the focus, priorities, cultural context, etc. are very different from one to the other;

however, if we look at outcome / effect (the "top" of the mountain), we can see that (good) wrestlers develop what essentially is the equivalent of "teng ging" (listening skill), "pang ging" (uprooting), "gan" (rootedness) etc. to the point of being essentially indistinguishable from a skilled taiji player; and boxers, in my estimation, tend to be pretty good at delivering "fa jing" (power issuance) when they strike using pretty much the same mechanics as a xing yi or taiji guy does; similarly, boxing footwork is an excellent example of "hin gung" or lightness skill (in the realistic sesnse, not in the "run up a wall" artifact)

so the question is - if someone trains a so-called "interal" system and is not able to produce the results that a boxer / wrestler produces, who is ultimately manifesting "internal" principles?

I don't make the distinction of external and internal in reference to martial arts practice.

I think it's just silly to look at the body as separate in that respect. There is really nothing but the whole body which includes mind. An integrated unit.
You can either fight or you can't.
You can either meditate or not.
You can either be strong or you aren't

compartmentalized descriptions can help a learning process as far as organizing thoughts go. But if not done in logical and easy to read order, it is going to wind up being fudge.