Manup Standup fights

[SAAMAG]

Counter shots, do happen off defensive postures, but generally the defense is a slip, sidestep, lean, sway, angled backstep, or the like.

Backing up directly however...is still considered "bad" because generally when you back up to defend a compound attack...you're going to get hit. Especially if you move directly back instead of backstepping at an angle to the attack.

[HumbleWCGuy]

BTW, you don't hear Alan disagreeing with me. Maybe, just maybe, he and I both see things from a very different perspective than you -- one that comes with actually training WCK.

You larped wc and took a correspondence course from Robert. There wasn't a whole lot of training there. As far as Alan's agreement or disagreement with you, I don't consider him any over-arching authority on WC. I just consider him a legitimate CSL practitioner where you aren't. As far as Arron's fight. If chasing someone around a ring and grabbing behind the neck is the extent of WC to you, you might have missed something.

[Knifefighter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49tbIUy5Qd0

You see Aaron trying to get in the phone booth (why he is relentlessly moving in, trying to take the inside), and when he achieves that is when he is effective. He'd stay there in the phone booth if he could. His opponent is trying to prevent this by constantly backing up -- which, btw, is a common tactic. It's weakness lies in the fact that if you are backing up, you can't put your body into your shots.

BTW, that was a pretty close fight... probably decided by ground skills rather than who did better standing.

[t_niehoff]

8 times out of 10, the guy who is doing the backing up wins the fight. The guy who is always pressuring is at a disadvantage.

That explains Tyson's record.

When you are an *infighter* -- and WCK is an infighting method -- you need to get to the inside. It's hard to do that backing up.

Boxer's who are inside fighters, like Joe Frazier or Tyson for examples, keep moving forward. They have to. If they stop moving forward, the other fighter just opens the distance, and then they are fighting on the outside.

[t_niehoff]

You larped wc and took a correspondence course from Robert. There wasn't a whole lot of training there. As far as Alan's agreement or disagreement with you, I don't consider him any over-arching authority on WC. I just consider him a legitimate CSL practitioner where you aren't. As far as Arron's fight. If chasing someone around a ring and grabbing behind the neck is the extent of WC to you, you might have missed something.

You have absolutely no idea about my training with Robert - so stop making up sh1t. Robert also hasn't taken exception with anything I've said. And I could care less about whether you consider me "a legitimate CSL practitioner". That Chu Sau Lei (Robert) does seems to carry a bit more weight (particularly since you know nothing of CSL WCK)!

This is just another example of you talking about something that you know nothing about.

I never said Alan is some "over-arching authority on WC", just that he and I have actually trained WCK, whereas you haven't.

[HumbleWCGuy]

That explains Tyson's record.

When you are an *infighter* -- and WCK is an infighting method -- you need to get to the inside. It's hard to do that backing up.

Boxer's who are inside fighters, like Joe Frazier or Tyson for examples, keep moving forward. They have to. If they stop moving forward, the other fighter just opens the distance, and then they are fighting on the outside.

Exceptions don't prove the rule. Also, sluggers like Frazier and Tyson usually have relatively short lived careers. Tyson walked through a relatively weak heavy weight division, and Frazier had a lot of trouble against Ali and Foreman.

[HumbleWCGuy]

You have absolutely no idea about my training with Robert - so stop making up sh1t. Robert also hasn't taken exception with anything I've said. And I could care less about whether you consider me "a legitimate CSL practitioner". That Chu Sau Lei (Robert) does seems to carry a bit more weight (particularly since you know nothing of CSL WCK)!

Please enlighten us then.

[Pacman]

BTW, that was a pretty close fight... probably decided by ground skills rather than who did better standing.

neither fighter was dominating until the guy who eventually lost got tired. you can see he was fatigured and aaron then took him out

[Wayfaring]

BTW, that was a pretty close fight... probably decided by ground skills rather than who did better standing.

That fight looked to me pretty even in skills. When it got to the 3rd round, my impression was either Baum had better conditioning, or the opponent really didn't have much heart. He basically fed him a standing guillotine. Who gets finished with a standing guillotine? He was quitting. If you look at his ground game through rounds 1 and 2 there is no way he is newb enough to get finished by a standing guillotine unless he was quitting.

[HumbleWCGuy]

The point that needs to be made about pressure fighters is that they do it out of necessity not because it is a preferable strategy. We don't see fighters with other options looking to pressure fight. WC as strictly pressure fighting is just stupid. You are handicapping yourself and your students.

[m1k3]

Humble, I both disagree and agree with this post(the boxing part that is).

Part of it is that pressure fighters fight that way because that is their preferred way to fight, not because it is a necessity. It fits their body type and mindset. Most fighters like this fight that way because they like it.

It becomes a necessity when you are a boxer or slugger and your style is not working and you have switch styles to win.

[t_niehoff]

Please enlighten us then.

I don't think anyone can "enlighten" you. You're stuck in bubble.

But I can say that YOU know nothing about CSL WCK, and I don't think you even train in WCK (since you won't provide your name, who you trained with, etc.). Robert, the creator/founder of CSL WCK, personally and privately taught me to HIS satisfaction -- I came to Robert after training in WCK for 17 years (having completed "the system"), and I spent approx 100 hours of personal, hands-on, private training with him (and more with some of his students, like Dave and Dzu) over several years, taking what he taught back to my group, training it, and then returning for more when I had made sufficient progress. That ceased when Robert told me that he really had nothing more to teach me -- that he taught me the method and that to develop my skill using it I needed to go out and train with good fighters. Robert, unlike others, doesn't put his trainees on the life-time plan or hold back "secrets".

Robert KNOWS firsthand that I know my sh1t; he's seen me in action, seen my group in action, has sparred/chi sao'ed with me and the guys I train with, etc. I could care less if someone like YOU, who seems to have, at the very most, a very low-level and superficial grasp of WCK (WCK is kickboxing), doubts my "credentials" -- although it is ironic that YOU doubt someone else's credentials when their teacher is on the forum and vouches for them, while you hide behind anonymity, lie about your training and accomplishments, and won't even provide details of YOUR training. People in glass houses . . . .

[HumbleWCGuy]

Humble, I both disagree and agree with this post(the boxing part that is).

Part of it is that pressure fighters fight that way because that is their preferred way to fight, not because it is a necessity. It fits their body type and mindset. Most fighters like this fight that way because they like it.

It becomes a necessity when you are a boxer or slugger and your style is not working and you have switch styles to win.

Pressure fighters take a lot of damage and have short careers because of it. It gives guys who are at a reach (and sometimes speed) disadvantage the best chance to win and is therefore necessitated, assuming that wining as many fights as possible is a goal. Preference plays some into boxing style but it really has to do with best chance to win.

[t_niehoff]

Exceptions don't prove the rule. Also, sluggers like Frazier and Tyson usually have relatively short lived careers. Tyson walked through a relatively weak heavy weight division, and Frazier had a lot of trouble against Ali and Foreman.

Dude, you are either an idiot or just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing.

There is no "rule". There are boxers who are inside fighters. In boxing, that's because this is where their personal strengths lie -- that's what they are best at. Some have strengths that lie on the outside. It's not a matter of choice, it is a matter of what you can do best (boxing provides the tools for both inside and outside).

With WCK, unlike boxing, being an inside fighter isn't an option -- that is what the method is "designed" for, that is its "operative range." This is the most basic of sh1t.


BTW,Aaron isn't being a "pressure fighter", he is trying to get to the inside of someone who is running away, backing up, and so he has to continually move forward.

Apparently some of you never learned the kuit pertaining to "entry" into the phone booth:

Choang chee cheong goang seen chee sun - Fast charging and thrusting are well suited for closing the gap

Lay but loy see ngoh yick but soang - Even when you do not advance, I do not relent

Seen fot jai yan, yun see yee goang - Make the first move to gain control, attack according to timing.

Chiu meen jui ying som jiu chai doh - Face the opponent directly as you move in. Execute three moves together.

Yau ying da ying moh ying da ying - Strike at any posture presented. If no posture is presented, strike where you see movement

Look at Aaron's fight and see whether these describe what he was doing.

[HumbleWCGuy]

I don't think anyone can "enlighten" you. You're stuck in bubble.

But I can say that YOU know nothing about CSL WCK, and I don't think you even train in WCK (since you won't provide your name, who you trained with, etc.). Robert, the creator/founder of CSL WCK, personally and privately taught me to HIS satisfaction -- I came to Robert after training in WCK for 17 years (having completed "the system"), and I spent approx 100 hours of personal, hands-on, private training with him (and more with some of his students, like Dave and Dzu) over several years, taking what he taught back to my group, training it, and then returning for more when I had made sufficient progress. That ceased when Robert told me that he really had nothing more to teach me -- that he taught me the method and that to develop my skill using it I needed to go out and train with good fighters. Robert, unlike others, doesn't put his trainees on the life-time plan or hold back "secrets".

Robert KNOWS firsthand that I know my sh1t; he's seen me in action, seen my group in action, has sparred/chi sao'ed with me and the guys I train with, etc. I could care less if someone like YOU, who seems to have, at the very most, a very low-level and superficial grasp of WCK (WCK is kickboxing), doubts my "credentials" -- although it is ironic that YOU doubt someone else's credentials when their teacher is on the forum and vouches for them, while you hide behind anonymity, lie about your training and accomplishments, and won't even provide details of YOUR training. People in glass houses . . . .

T. I wouldn't care if you received instruction from Yim Wing Chun, you still are full of it.