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Thread: Video: Controlled Sparring Demo by the Chief Instructor of AYZYIM

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by KC Elbows View Post
    Just to clarify, I am mostly talking about your drills, not the techniques themselves, except where I feel the drills are not showing the techniques as well as they could.

    After watching it again, I really think one major thing that would help make these drills more useful for what you are wanting is putting gloves on the attacker. Thus, his strikes will more likely be on target and effective, so that you can showcase these moves against effective technique.

    Again, just my thoughts. Anything that can improve our gongfu, right?
    Thank you for your valuable suggestions. First of all, I agree to your criticism on the title. Using the word "sparring" may be misleading and we will figure out a better name for it after discussion. Fortunately, except the one slide in the video content, the title and description can be modified easily for a YouTube video.

    Every fajin in the end of a set of movements can be either a short, impulsive striking, or a longer, more penetrating pushing. Since the result of a long jin is more visible and perhaps more entertaining, all the demonstrations employ long jin except two.

    Using gloves definitely allows the attacker to strike more realistically. However, since we are basically a Baguazhang-based school, using gloves would be a last resort.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by suddenflower View Post
    Thank you for your valuable suggestions.
    No problem!

    First of all, I agree to your criticism on the title. Using the word "sparring" may be misleading and we will figure out a better name for it after discussion. Fortunately, except the one slide in the video content, the title and description can be modified easily for a YouTube video.
    Glad to help.

    Every fajin in the end of a set of movements can be either a short, impulsive striking, or a longer, more penetrating pushing. Since the result of a long jin is more visible and perhaps more entertaining, all the demonstrations employ long jin except two.
    I understand.

    Using gloves definitely allows the attacker to strike more realistically. However, since we are basically a Baguazhang-based school, using gloves would be a last resort.
    If I might clarify: I am not suggesting using gloves in all striking, my style also utilizes chops and palms, so I understand the issues with gloves. However, in these demos, the attacker is using fisted strikes, and holding back a bit, which affects the demo, and makes it look less realistic. Gloves can help.

    Gloves are just like any training tool. You don't always train with a dummy, or plum flower posts, or a heavy bag, or sand bags, they each are merely tools to work specific things, but they work those things well. Gloves are very useful for the sake of drills involving punching, that's all, but they are quite useful in that context, and their use would inspire the student defending on this drill to be more mindful of the strike coming in in many cases, and provide a safe way to ensure that students doing such drills are still punching on target effectively. This has been my experience.

  3. #18
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    I also want to say I like that you focus on usage in your fajin training, it's something that I see some fail to attempt. While there are people out there doing their fajin training with usage, a lot seem to only do their fajin in the forms, and abandon it in fighting because they don't use it even at the application level, much less sparring.

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by KC Elbows View Post
    And certainly, the term sparring suggests that neither party knows for certain what will happen. Perhaps if you had drills that had one response for a lead, another for a cross, and the person throwing the attacks chose which and the other didn't know, this could be a sparring drill. I'd recommend changing the title otherwise. These are basically your fajin applications. Sparring drills for these would be live, and I would be interested in seeing further developments as these drills progress. Good luck.
    We have changed the title of the video to "Basic Controlled Sparring Fajin Demo by the Chief Instructor of AYZYIM". We still keep the word "sparring" here following the convention of Karate. The karate community calls this kind of exercises "one step sparring", which is their most basic sparring exercise. Again, I'd like to thank you for your suggestion. We like the new title better.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by KC Elbows View Post
    If I might clarify: I am not suggesting using gloves in all striking, my style also utilizes chops and palms, so I understand the issues with gloves. However, in these demos, the attacker is using fisted strikes, and holding back a bit, which affects the demo, and makes it look less realistic. Gloves can help.

    Gloves are just like any training tool. You don't always train with a dummy, or plum flower posts, or a heavy bag, or sand bags, they each are merely tools to work specific things, but they work those things well. Gloves are very useful for the sake of drills involving punching, that's all, but they are quite useful in that context, and their use would inspire the student defending on this drill to be more mindful of the strike coming in in many cases, and provide a safe way to ensure that students doing such drills are still punching on target effectively. This has been my experience.
    I agree with you on the benefits of using gloves in training. We will try this in classes.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by suddenflower View Post
    I am sorry if we confused you by not choosing the right words in the title according to your definition. We did try to indicate that this is not the final training by using the word "controlled". One major objective of the exercise is to make sure one possesses sound structures after the less dynamic trainings in the previous stages and before moving on to the next level of training.
    Don’t try to sound condescending after posting that cr*p please

    You didn’t confuse me it’s what I expected from certain people who have no idea about what sparring and fighting is

    No it’s a way to stretch out the training and make even more money out of students before you let them spar and they realise what they are learning sucks

    Structure is only solid within the context its used, in other words those stupid ass drills done against unrealistic attacks will be useless when you actually have to face someone actually trying to hit you, rather than a student flying around as soon as his master breaths on him

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    Don’t try to sound condescending after posting that cr*p please

    You didn’t confuse me it’s what I expected from certain people who have no idea about what sparring and fighting is

    No it’s a way to stretch out the training and make even more money out of students before you let them spar and they realise what they are learning sucks

    Structure is only solid within the context its used, in other words those stupid ass drills done against unrealistic attacks will be useless when you actually have to face someone actually trying to hit you, rather than a student flying around as soon as his master breaths on him
    I have emphasized that this is just an intermediate training exercise; a basic, initial step toward the final free sparring. How much internal martial arts training do you have to be qualified in evaluating the merits of this kind of exercises? Would you be so kind as to give us an example of internal martial arts training exercises which you think is useful?

    From your posting, the only thing I can extract is that you like to fight in words. And from the language you used, you seem to lack the most important attribute of a respectable fighter - the martial virtue. I hope you are not just a frustrated MMA fighter.

  8. #23
    I don't understand how demonstrating techniques on a 100% compliant student is remotely related to any sort of sparring;

    but then every video of this guy shows the same thing: entrained students complying with the techniques;

    just another case of uke-itis, really...

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by suddenflower View Post
    And from the language you used, you seem to lack the most important attribute of a respectable fighter - the martial virtue.
    LMAO, that's just the lamest "argument" out there; it's like, as soon as someone is unapologetically critical of what they see as being crapola, the person being critiqued pulls the "wu de" card, like it's some sort of umbrella policy that demands that prevents crap from being called crap;

    FYI, there is no such thing as a "respectable" fighter - well, at least not a living "respectable" fighter, considering that successful fighters are the "non-respectable" ones;

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by suddenflower View Post
    I agree with you on the benefits of using gloves in training. We will try this in classes.
    wait a minute: do you mean to say that on the suggestion of some anonymous internet poster, you will NOW try using gloves? like, it never occurred to you before?!?

    oh lawdy, lawdy, lawdy...

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    fake fajin. but im happy for fellow chinese making good money in america. i hope he can buy a big house
    he won't let you in it tho, because while u r fellow Chinese, u r stil poore

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    I don't understand how demonstrating techniques on a 100% compliant student is remotely related to any sort of sparring;

    but then every video of this guy shows the same thing: entrained students complying with the techniques;

    just another case of uke-itis, really...
    In your profile, you claim that you are currently learning Taijiquan. This really surprises me a lot. Obviously, you still don't have any idea what internal martial art is.

    The exercise performed in the video are similar to the "one step sparring" drills in Karate. For sexample, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZghm7Gz8ZY
    Are the exercises not useful because the attacker is a compliant one who doesn't move after he punches?

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    LMAO, that's just the lamest "argument" out there; it's like, as soon as someone is unapologetically critical of what they see as being crapola, the person being critiqued pulls the "wu de" card, like it's some sort of umbrella policy that demands that prevents crap from being called crap;

    FYI, there is no such thing as a "respectable" fighter - well, at least not a living "respectable" fighter, considering that successful fighters are the "non-respectable" ones;
    May be I am wasting my time. To talk "wu de" with you may be just like "cast pearls before swine." A typical and ideal example of respectable Chinese martial artists is the character Mr. Li Mu-Bai in the movie "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon" directed by Ang Lee. I don't know how much you know about traditional Chinese martial arts culture. But just because one can fight well as a successful gladiator is not enough to make him a respectable fighter.

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by suddenflower View Post
    In your profile, you claim that you are currently learning Taijiquan. This really surprises me a lot. Obviously, you still don't have any idea what internal martial art is.
    yeh, OBVIOUSLY I have no idea about so-called "internal" because I don't subscribe to a bunch of entrainment silliness;
    BTW, your tactic of trying to invalidate my own practice as a way of deflecting critique of the sewage you post is lame and played out; and it doesn't support your position in the least
    it's just hysterical - because someone doesn't buy this sort of craptacular display, they obviously don't know anything about "internal"; typical posturing and one reason why so much of TCMA is regarded as a joke
    next you are going to say that when your teacher moves, he doen't use his muscles either...
    Quote Originally Posted by suddenflower View Post
    The exercise performed in the video are similar to the "one step sparring" drills in Karate. For sexample, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZghm7Gz8ZY
    Are the exercises not useful because the attacker is a compliant one who doesn't move after he punches?
    that is exactly why they are not usefu, because they teach based on a contrivance that the attacker will not respond; considering that you are trianing to fight, theoreticaly, practicing in this way is of minimal to no value, and perhaps even detrimental that, and the way the attack comes in is also a contrivance; at the very best, it might b useful for beginning beginners, but even that is debatable;
    (you will now doubtless proffer the "argument" that because it's been done this way for a million-bilion years, that it needs must be useful, and you will incredulously ask me if I am naysaying the accumuated wisodom of umpteenth generations of venerated hoary masters, and the answer is, "yes, I am");

    btw, in the video u post, I wonder what the martial significance is of the defender adjusting his belt in between every attack is?
    Last edited by taai gihk yahn; 08-14-2010 at 07:48 PM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by suddenflower View Post
    If you think the exercises are useless or the scenarios are unrealistic, it is a different issue.
    I will give the same following comment even if Yang Cheng-Fu or Cheng Man Ching demonstrated "pushing" in public.

    Old Chinese saying said, "keep your friend close but keep your enemy closer." I always have issue with "pushing people away". Why not just put your opponent down below your knee, and finish with a punch on the head?

    CMA is more than just Fajin. CMA is to solve problems. Unless you can push your opponent off the cliff, or into heavy traffic, your problem has not been solved yet.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 08-14-2010 at 08:59 PM.

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