Southern Preying Mantis - GM Henry Sue - Oz

[Violent Designs]

yep. but as I said, everyone fought like kickboxers. Jab, cross, hook, uppercut,front kick, sidekick, roundhouse. They were cool, but it really didn't look any different.

Kinda like some of the only things that can be used with boxing gloves though...

[Syn7]

To be honest gloves annoy and limit grappling no end: they limit our sensitivity, and make slapping on a lot of subs harder and make it easier to defend for none grapplers etc but you still see guys sparring with them

the worst is when they hold the gloves, or trap your forearms and you cant pull out because of the gloves... essecially against a non grappler who just holds on for dear life... very annoying.. slippery sweaty hands are much harder to nuetralize...

[TenTigers]

Kinda like some of the only things that can be used with boxing gloves though...

arrrggghh!! NO! (bangs head against keyboard)
that's the whole thing-gwa, cup, pek,gow,sow,been, can all be done with boxing gloves on! What I don't understand is why nobody (except yours truly) has ever thought of it before.
Now, granted,I know not every style uses these techniques, but most Southern long arm styles do.(Hung-Ga, Jow-Ga, Hop-Ga,Fut-Ga, Hung-Fut, Lama,CLF, Fu Jow P'ai,etc)
Jamming and trapping techniques such as lan-sao can be used with gloves as well.
This is the weird thing; I have been trying to get Kung-Fu people to do this for years, and they would say,"You can't. The judges won't allow/recognize the techniques"
To which I responded,
"Bull****. you simply need to educate the judges!"
It's the weirdest thing. It's as if they were afraid to even try.
Slowly but surely, more and more KF guys are doing it. I am beginning to see more and more of these strikes being thrown.(mostly from CLF guys...)
Give it time.
"Trust the process!"

[Syn7]

It's the weirdest thing. It's as if they were afraid to even try.

because untill they are proven wrong, in their own mind they are right... a bit of objective thinking will have anyone realising that uness they train for the ring, they'll most likely get whipped in the ring... esspecially if they dont do full contact sparring at all...

[Violent Designs]

arrrggghh!! NO! (bangs head against keyboard)
that's the whole thing-gwa, cup, pek,gow,sow,been, can all be done with boxing gloves on! What I don't understand is why nobody (except yours truly) has ever thought of it before.
Now, granted,I know not every style uses these techniques, but most Southern long arm styles do.(Hung-Ga, Jow-Ga, Hop-Ga,Fut-Ga, Hung-Fut, Lama,CLF, Fu Jow P'ai,etc)
Jamming and trapping techniques such as lan-sao can be used with gloves as well.
This is the weird thing; I have been trying to get Kung-Fu people to do this for years, and they would say,"You can't. The judges won't allow/recognize the techniques"
To which I responded,
"Bull****. you simply need to educate the judges!"
It's the weirdest thing. It's as if they were afraid to even try.
Slowly but surely, more and more KF guys are doing it. I am beginning to see more and more of these strikes being thrown.(mostly from CLF guys...)
Give it time.
"Trust the process!"

Well gwa looks like a backfist. Because it is.
Charp chui looks like a jab.
Sau chui looks like a hooking punch/overhand
Pow chui looks like an uppercut...

so ppl will say, oh all you are throwing are jabs straights hooks and uppercuts...

I guess they are right, there is enough similarity in the path of motion.

You understand what I am saying I'm sure, I am not disagreeing with you on this matter.

[Frost]

Well, what the Gracies have done is unprecedented. I kind of see it as they practicalised an academic art, with the expected salsa flair...or perhaps fire. No, its remarkable. What more can you say?

The game is magic, you can play it as hard as possible, and tap once the result is inevitable. Add the ground and pound - its a new standard.

I think TCMA is evolving, but its a percentages game. Are 10% practical, 20, 30? It will ebb and flow as they split between the wu shu mentality, and the black iron gym mentality, regardless of style. Certainly not leading anything. HOWEVER, the stuff is rich, lots to learn, lots of options, if you get a good teacher.



Speaking for myself and my club at least, we have training videos we won't publish because it does show how we fight. That's part of our gig, surprise.

Does it work? So far results are over the last couple of years, students 3 - Loser A-holes 0, which is minimally reassuring, but reassuring nevertheless.

But, the point you make is a good one, there are no videos because there are no winners to boast about, cept Cung Lee.....




Gloves are like Women, can't live with them, can't live without them.

My current thinking is to break down the full into parts. Train the parts under control, and occasionally, put them together and check the result.

This is simply the enabling, that will allow the fighters to come to the fore, and get what they need.

In every school I ever visited, there are only a small core of real fighters, I bet the same is true in an MMA gym too, but granted to a much lesser degree?

We also train more aspects of 'self defence' than fighting. We cover situational awareness, body language, group tactics, multiple attackers, escape strategy and the like.

so you don’t post videos in case guys you might meet on the street or in a ring see it? I don’t get this secrecy and line of thinking, there are videos of pros on line showing their fights and their sparring matches, i know what they do and their favorite technique, still doesn't mean i have a hope in hell of stopping it when we spar. Seeing the end result is useless without actually going through the process of how you got there, but it does help put people on the right line.

Without people willing to put up videos of what they are doing and what works/doesn’t work arts stagnate and die out.

BJJ is a classic example gracie torrance didnt let their guys compete for years and kept what they did in house...up shot was BJJ passed them buy and they got creamed in a comp with their cousins, now they are out there competing with everyone else.

[TenTigers]

ok, so check this out: Last Sunday we were competing at an open tournament-point fighting. So my guy nails this guy with three sow choys-controlled contact to the side of the headgear. The center judge, a Karate practitioner, scolds him for throwing punches "like a woman"-because they were hooks to his head..?and he should be throwing straight punches...? um, what?
So I tell him, "No, these are sow choys, (which I demonstrate) and they are strikes that we do in our style, as well as cup choy(which I show him.)
He answers back, "Well, if you want to throw hooking strikes, you should throw ridgehands."
I say (quite a bit perturbed) "NO! We throw Sow choys. Don't tell him to change how he strikes, just because you are unfamiliar with the technique. A strike is a strike, the hand shape is not the issue."
-and this guy was a (supposedly) high ranking BB...who was inviolved in tournaments since the 70's?
Hmmm..doesn't seem to get out much...

[David Jamieson]

ok, so check this out: Last Sunday we were competing at an open tournament-point fighting. So my guy nails this guy with three sow choys-controlled contact to the side of the headgear. The center judge, a Karate practitioner, scolds him for throwing punches "like a woman"-because they were hooks to his head..?and he should be throwing straight punches...? um, what?
So I tell him, "No, these are sow choys, (which I demonstrate) and they are strikes that we do in our style, as well as cup choy(which I show him.)
He answers back, "Well, if you want to throw hooking strikes, you should throw ridgehands."
I say (quite a bit perturbed) "NO! We throw Sow choys. Don't tell him to change how he strikes, just because you are unfamiliar with the technique. A strike is a strike, the hand shape is not the issue."
-and this guy was a (supposedly) high ranking BB...who was inviolved in tournaments since the 70's?
Hmmm..doesn't seem to get out much...

what's unfortunate is that kung fu tourneys are frequently filled with people like this.

It's so dissapointing. Probably time to take Kung Fu tournaments in a different direction from how the typical ones are run.

if you have san shou, it's san shou rules and no discretionary crap from opinionated blowhards.

[Frost]

ok, so check this out: Last Sunday we were competing at an open tournament-point fighting. So my guy nails this guy with three sow choys-controlled contact to the side of the headgear. The center judge, a Karate practitioner, scolds him for throwing punches "like a woman"-because they were hooks to his head..?and he should be throwing straight punches...? um, what?
So I tell him, "No, these are sow choys, (which I demonstrate) and they are strikes that we do in our style, as well as cup choy(which I show him.)
He answers back, "Well, if you want to throw hooking strikes, you should throw ridgehands."
I say (quite a bit perturbed) "NO! We throw Sow choys. Don't tell him to change how he strikes, just because you are unfamiliar with the technique. A strike is a strike, the hand shape is not the issue."
-and this guy was a (supposedly) high ranking BB...who was inviolved in tournaments since the 70's?
Hmmm..doesn't seem to get out much...

go compete in full contact, it leaves no room for doubt when the opponent is lying on the floor

[sanjuro_ronin]

BJJ is a classic example gracie torrance didnt let their guys compete for years and kept what they did in house...up shot was BJJ passed them buy and they got creamed in a comp with their cousins, now they are out there competing with everyone else.

The lesson here is VITAL to learn.

[jo]

go compete in full contact, it leaves no room for doubt when the opponent is lying on the floor

Full contact? Put some gloves on. No eye gouging, no throat strikes, no temple strikes, no strikes to the back of the head, no kicking to the balls, no kicking to the knees, no kicking when a guy is down????

Thats a sport, not the street.

-jo

[Dale Dugas]

I have no need to compete, competing is not the same thing as using your material on the street.

Though for defense Im more inclined to shoot someone rather than put my hands on them.

[Faruq]

I have no need to compete, competing is not the same thing as using your material on the street.

Though for defense Im more inclined to shoot someone rather than put my hands on them.

You're gansta! Respect!

[TenTigers]

the argument that street doesn't count, as the people you are fighting are not trained, or skilled doesn't really mean that much to me.
I need to defend myself-period. The average attacker is not a well-conditioned cage fighter, and frankly, at my age, even if I was training hard, I doubt I would fair well against GSP.
The police have shootouts with perps-perps who do not go to the range, do not practice combat shooting, probably don't even know what a modified weaver is, and yet...in my mind, I kinda think that counts, right?
My Martial Arts has never failed me in self-defense encounters. I've been in a few, and I'm still here.
Sure, I would've loved it to look like a Bruce Lee movie,
but Bruce is dead and I'm not, so I win. Nyah!

[Jorge]

I have no need to compete, competing is not the same thing as using your material on the street.

Though for defense Im more inclined to shoot someone rather than put my hands on them.

Sounds like we grew up on the same block! I knew you looked familiar.LOLOLOL

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