Southern Preying Mantis - GM Henry Sue - Oz

[Frost]

LMAO !!
Thanks, but the video, if I ever get it done, will be better in explaining it.

the video would be great but it fits perfectly with what i have been thinking about and testing, after 7 years pure MMA and boxing i have come to see where and how i can fit in my previous hakka arts (as well as my CLF and hung gar), and your thoughts really help me see i am going in the right direction now if i can only make enough time in the week to go and visit my old hakka teacher

[Yum Cha]

Is this what you are talking about? Its at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TodaiLeu.../4/h79sQ795Crc

[Jorge]

yes and no. Short power in Hakka Kuen was designed so that the practitioner can strike from wherever his hand happens to be-a neccesity in close fighting. If his hand intercepts a strike, (blocking,covering, whatever)it strikes right from that point-at any angle-elbow up, down, sideways, straight, curved, rising, falling,etc.
The idea is to be able to connect to your body and develop full body power.

Sanjuro,


The above is exactly how I learned it.

I dont fight with my hands fully extended, neither should any short hand/hakka player, because its incorrect posture. You shouldn't hold your hands to far nor to close to your face, at least its what I've been taught and it has worked just fine for me. I dont play the open guard, but my boy swears by it and I've seen this dude lace MFs. Funny thing is, he's never had a day of training.LOLOL

I understand what you are saying...All I'm saying is that the short power in hakka arts, the hands shoots from wherever it is. There is no need to draw or bring the elbows back to my side in order for me to strike with ging/full body power. As a matter of fact one of the things that hakka/ short hand sifus look for when people are doing the performances, is if their elbows are exposed from behind. If that makes any sense...LOLOLOL

The Bruce Lee Demo was a push. Real short power/ fa ging hurts like b!tch.

[MysteriousPower]

I probably could h ave made the SPM I was taught work ONLY with the Hung Kuen I knew and I think that, while SPM is a finishing system, it can work as a stand alone PROVIDED it is trained VS other systems and the practioners modify it accordingly.

I have learned to apply the short hand not only in close but from MY typical striking range ( which tends to be closer than most as it is anyways).
I really have to make a video of it, the video explains so much better...

In a nutshell, in boxing we get short power by bring back our elbows and torquing our bodies and, typiclaly, keeping the strike "circular" liek a hook or uppercut.
In SPM we keep the elbows "in front" of the body and that makes it a whole different ball game, but only on the surface.
The body torque is "the same", the difference is that in western boxing the short strikes are PULLED by the torque ( elbow is behind or beside the body) and in SPM the strike is PUSHED by the torque since the elbow is in front.

Not sure if I made it clear...

The fact that your tcma training was combined with sport oriented training is telling in that you did not make the spm work with hung kuen alone. This is not a derogatory remark. But who knows if you would have been able to make it work(were you talking about in the ring or in a street fight) had you not had training in the sport oriented styles. If someone JUST trained spm the way it is trained in all these youtube videos they would never survive in an mma match.

[TenTigers]

Actually then its not "yes and no", "it yes, but lets not forget.."

point well-taken.

[Violent Designs]

The fact that your tcma training was combined with sport oriented training is telling in that you did not make the spm work with hung kuen alone. This is not a derogatory remark. But who knows if you would have been able to make it work(were you talking about in the ring or in a street fight) had you not had training in the sport oriented styles. If someone JUST trained spm the way it is trained in all these youtube videos they would never survive in an mma match.

Perhaps you are right.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Is this what you are talking about? Its at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TodaiLeu.../4/h79sQ795Crc

Yeah, that is a typical demo when the power is applied with a 3/4 extension, something that tends to not be very practical in terms of striking, though the video shows it more as applied to pushing which is ok.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sanjuro,


The above is exactly how I learned it.

I dont fight with my hands fully extended, neither should any short hand/hakka player, because its incorrect posture. You shouldn't hold your hands to far nor to close to your face, at least its what I've been taught and it has worked just fine for me. I dont play the open guard, but my boy swears by it and I've seen this dude lace MFs. Funny thing is, he's never had a day of training.LOLOL

I understand what you are saying...All I'm saying is that the short power in hakka arts, the hands shoots from wherever it is. There is no need to draw or bring the elbows back to my side in order for me to strike with ging/full body power. As a matter of fact one of the things that hakka/ short hand sifus look for when people are doing the performances, is if their elbows are exposed from behind. If that makes any sense...LOLOLOL

The Bruce Lee Demo was a push. Real short power/ fa ging hurts like b!tch.

Here is the thing, MOST demos as just that, pushes and here is the other thing, when was the last time you saw short power done in an actual match?
Yes, the above is a fine description for what one TRIES to acheive, but when was the last time you say it done? for real, not demo, not class, not drilling, for real ( The opponent NOT standing still and NOT just throwing out oenm shot but truly trying to KO someone).

[sanjuro_ronin]

The fact that your tcma training was combined with sport oriented training is telling in that you did not make the spm work with hung kuen alone. This is not a derogatory remark. But who knows if you would have been able to make it work(were you talking about in the ring or in a street fight) had you not had training in the sport oriented styles. If someone JUST trained spm the way it is trained in all these youtube videos they would never survive in an mma match.

Dude, I can make that statement because the sport systems were there BEFORE the SPM.
But in regards to this:

If someone JUST trained spm the way it is trained in all these youtube videos they would never survive in an mma match.

I well say this:
What I have seen from the SPM guys I know and the few Bak Mei guys I know ( that is the extent of short hand guys I know and have fought), they were NOT able to deal with the MMA problem when I presented it to them.
That said, with training most were able to find the solution.

[jo]

It sucks when a SPM/Hakka player has to forget about striking to the back of the head, the temples, the eyes, the neck, the throat just because none of that happens in the MMA universe when a guy "shoots".

-jo

[Yum Cha]

Sanjuro, I take umbrance! That is not a 'typical' demo, that is an 'exceptional' demo!

I can just say, I've pushed people on the street like that twice. Once at a massive outdoor event and the aggressive jerk was on my nerves and I really had to get him out of my space, the other time, a guy was in my face - and I just removed him for both our safety.

Both times I could feel their rib cage compress and hear the wheeze and see the 'bug eye', both times they went down, both times they got up and went away... granted, sprouting foul language...

It just took the fight out of them, so, hey, I'm counting that...

To me, the single most significant issue is the telegraph, or rather lack. Going from stop to go without any twitch, breath or positioning. If you can do that, you can make Hakka boxing work.



Oh yea, Fung ahn on the end of it helps.

[Syn7]

i think hakka arts are a pefect fit into a well rounded mma fighter... in general, i think the short fist styles will work into mma hybrids a bit better...
the 4ounce "grappling" gloves pose a problem that is most annoying, but most do-able... man i hate those gloves... any gloves... its so annoying grappling with somebody who constantly neutralizes your wrist by holding the gloves. or making it so i cant pull my hands out becoz of the gloves, something that would be easy without gloves becomes a nightmare with them... you arent supposed to hold the gloves, but people do all the time... and even if a ref says stop, usually the damage is done... like when you have somebody up in a HUGE double and they grab the ring or cage on the way down... what couldve been a ko slam turns into a luckluster cluster f u c k scamble for position, all becoz they cheated... and unless they do it like 218767 times they dont lose points... annoying.... rant... anyways.......

anyone know anything about vagabond/wanderers??? i dont see much about it... its an east river thang, no???

[sanjuro_ronin]

It sucks when a SPM/Hakka player has to forget about striking to the back of the head, the temples, the eyes, the neck, the throat just because none of that happens in the MMA universe when a guy "shoots".

-jo

Dude, those were valid targets in Vale Tudo for years, have you forgotten?
Still are outside of the UFC and N.American MMA rules.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sanjuro, I take umbrance! That is not a 'typical' demo, that is an 'exceptional' demo!

I can just say, I've pushed people on the street like that twice. Once at a massive outdoor event and the aggressive jerk was on my nerves and I really had to get him out of my space, the other time, a guy was in my face - and I just removed him for both our safety.

Both times I could feel their rib cage compress and hear the wheeze and see the 'bug eye', both times they went down, both times they got up and went away... granted, sprouting foul language...

It just took the fight out of them, so, hey, I'm counting that...

To me, the single most significant issue is the telegraph, or rather lack. Going from stop to go without any twitch, breath or positioning. If you can do that, you can make Hakka boxing work.



Oh yea, Fung ahn on the end of it helps.

Sorry, I have never been much of a "push" person.
Why push when you can DESTROY !?!?!?!?!?

[Yum Cha]

Sorry, I have never been much of a "push" person.
Why push when you can DESTROY !?!?!?!?!?

Gee, you have to make a little room sometimes in the clinch...

And you know, I'm sure, you can chamber different kinds of rounds in that weapon.

And that's kind of the cornerstone of the debate, I suppose, the short hand vs the 'longer arc' styles. With Boxing being what, 40/60?