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Thread: The Choy Li Fut Name?

  1. #1

    The Choy Li Fut Name?

    Had an innocent question so I hope it doesn't ignite into something more.

    Choy Li Fut was named by Chan Heung based on his 3 teachers.

    and he opened up schools/branches/clubs under that name.

    Jeong Yim trained is said to have trained with a common teacher Li Yau San before training with Chan Heung for 5 years from the age of 12. Next we trained with Ching Mo.

    So the question I have is Was Jeong Yim a disciple/representative of Chan Heung?

    If not, why did he use Chan Heung's style name "Choy Li Fut"?

    just curious and hope this doesn't cause a flame war.

    thanks.

    eric

  2. #2
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    Choy Li Fut was named by Chan Heung based on his 3 teachers.
    Chan Heung had three teachers and named his system after two of them and the fact that it all came from the Shaolin Temple, hence the Fut for meaning Buddha.


    and he opened up schools/branches/clubs under that name.
    Choy Lee Fut is the name of the system, not the school. so yes, HE opened his own school teaching the early stages of his new system.

    Jeong Yim trained is said to have trained with a common teacher Li Yau San before training with Chan Heung for 5 years from the age of 12. Next we trained with Ching Mo.
    yes...in 1836 Jeung Yim trained with Chan Heung till 1841 when he was 17 years old. Since Choy Lee Fut was nowhere near any kind of a complete stage, Jeung Yim only picked up what was taught within that 5 year period of its creation. So his training in CLF was incomplete. During the time he was under the Green Grass Monk CLF continued to EVOLVE and Jeung Yim wasn't there to be a part of that.

    Then he trained under the Green Grass Monk, completing the system in 8 years. It was the Green Grass Monk that asked Jeung Yim to go to Fut San to teach the Hung Mun, NOT Chan Heung.

    So, if Jeung Yim never completed his Lee Gar training under Lee Yau San, nor under Chan Heung, what was it that Jeung Yim was teaching in Fut San in 1851? Since the only system he completed was Fut Gar Kuen, it makes sense it was Fut Gar Kuen, and as he developed his fighting method it was mixed with whatever Choy Lee Fut he picked up and Lee Gar.

    So while in Fut San was Jeung Yim representing Chan Heung and Choy Lee Fut? NO. He was only following instructions to open a school in fut san by the Green Grass Monk. It wasn't until Jeung Yim returned to Chan Heung sometime around 1864 or so that he returned to the Choy Lee Fut picture. During that time, jeung hung sing shared what he learned from the Green Grass Monk with Chan Heung. This is the point that CLF took on its FIRST transformation.

    So to answer this question simply, yes Jeung Yim was a former disciple of Chan Heung, but NO, he was not in fut san representing chan heung in 1851.

    f not, why did he use Chan Heung's style name "Choy Li Fut"?
    It probably took place after Jeung Yim's return to chan heung after being OUT OF THE CHOY LEE FUT PICTURE for more than 20 years. and since Jeung Hung Sing knew the basic techniques of chan heung's choy lee fut, it's possible that Jeung Hung Sing agree'd to be part of the CLF family again.

    But, it is rumored that Jeung Hung Sing never called his gung fu CHOY LEE FUT, it was others that did that. HUNG SING KUEN or even Fut Gar was used in the early stages from what i hear.
    Last edited by hskwarrior; 09-09-2010 at 09:12 AM.
    Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
    when he's around quick to ground and pound a clown
    Bruh we thought you knew better
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    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    It probably took place after Jeung Yim's return to chan heung after being OUT OF THE CHOY LEE FUT PICTURE for more than 20 years.

    But, it is rumored that Jeung Hung Sing never called his gung fu CHOY LEE FUT, it was others that did that. HUNG SING KUEN or even Fut Gar was used in the early stages from what i hear.
    Hi Frank,

    Then why don't you and your Futsan elders go back to your root and call what you do HUNG SING KUEN or FUT GAR? Why keep the name CHOY LEE FUT? There is no need, it only creates confusion.

    XJ

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    We do it because it erks your nerves joseph....i know its like finger nails scratching a chalk board huh?

    You do see Buk Hsing FUT GAR going on in Canada don't you? i think they had the right idea.
    Last edited by hskwarrior; 09-09-2010 at 09:02 AM.
    Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
    when he's around quick to ground and pound a clown
    Bruh we thought you knew better
    when it comes to head huntin, ain't no one can do it better

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    lmao.....

    JOSEPH,
    your chan yiu chi records say Chan Heung sent Jeung Hung Sing to Fut San in 1867....

    So how do you explain that the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon had been established 16 years prior to the date given by Chan Yiu Chi?

    ngokfei,

    it was agreed that Chan heung and Jeung Hung Sing would just continue to develop their gung fu they way they saw fit.

    we don't deny that chan heung was jeung hung sing's former sifu.
    Last edited by hskwarrior; 09-09-2010 at 09:14 AM.
    Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
    when he's around quick to ground and pound a clown
    Bruh we thought you knew better
    when it comes to head huntin, ain't no one can do it better

  6. #6
    Having mucked around in a few prominent TCMA lineages and their history, I'd suggest that the real story may even be less clear and direct than the one here....

    Politics at the time, in the time since and CURRENT politics,

    Personal agendas, hissy fits, etc

    And the general Chinese tendency to never do anything in a straight line
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

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    Hi Frank,

    Then why don't you and your Futsan elders go back to your root and call what you do HUNG SING KUEN or FUT GAR? Why keep the name CHOY LEE FUT? There is no need, it only creates confusion.

    XJ
    Because of people like YOU and Ngan Yiu Ting's late son, my sifu USES the HUNG SING KUEN name now more than ever because he doesn't want to be part of a group of people who think and act like you.

    However, it was chan yong fa's people who tried to bring us back and say that NOT ALL people think and act like this.
    Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
    when he's around quick to ground and pound a clown
    Bruh we thought you knew better
    when it comes to head huntin, ain't no one can do it better

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    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    However, it was chan yong fa's people who tried to bring us back and say that NOT ALL people think and act like this.

    Hi Frank,

    Then is it not time for you to lay-off Chan Yiu-Chi, Chen Yong-Fa's grandfather?

    XJ

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    as long as you try to tell me to believe an outside source to my lineage's history ....

    NO
    Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
    when he's around quick to ground and pound a clown
    Bruh we thought you knew better
    when it comes to head huntin, ain't no one can do it better

  10. #10
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    Hi Frank,

    No one asked you to believe, Chan Yiu-Chi has been dead and gone for a long time, I am just quoting his words, you don't have to believe them, it is just others can read them.

    XJ

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    YOU DID!
    Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
    when he's around quick to ground and pound a clown
    Bruh we thought you knew better
    when it comes to head huntin, ain't no one can do it better

  12. #12
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    No Frank, I don't ask you to believe them, I asked you and others to read them.

    XJ

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    what is the purpose of my elders reading it? what are you trying to accomplish?

    what if my elders read your chan yiu chi account and still feel the same way?
    Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
    when he's around quick to ground and pound a clown
    Bruh we thought you knew better
    when it comes to head huntin, ain't no one can do it better

  14. #14
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    Hi Frank,

    It is not for your elders to read, it is for the forumers here to read.

    XJ

  15. #15
    thanks that answered my inquiry.

    One thing I learned in China was that schools were predominantly named after the Teacher or Symbolic Group.

    Its nice that here in the US the trend to resume this instead of just calling it by the style taught (ie: "Choy Li Fut Kung Fu school "into "John Doe Kung Fu School").

    and wow didn't know that Jeong Yim's CLF doesn't have any of the sets taught by the Chan Family Lineage CLF.

    If I may ask what are JY's Curriculum Hand Forms.

    eric

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